Forgetting to switch on Beedroid timer


#1

Hello Akratics!

I have set up some goals which are timer based. To prevent me from entering
any data which might be fake, I have setup the fine print on these goals to
say that only data points allowed are beedroid’s timer entry.

Now, when I start working on the goal, I usually forget to start the timer.
Does anyone else also have this problem? Since I cannot enter any manual
data, I have to redo the goal again after starting the timer. Any
suggestions please.

Thanks,
Pankaj


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#2

Do you really need this fine print? It sounds like this fine print about
only using timer data points would only be helpful if you were (a)
dishonest enough to enter fake data points, BUT (b) honest enough to abide
by the fine print! It sounds like (b) is true since you are apparently
willing to redo goals just because of your fine print. So are you really
worried about (a)? If you are willing to abide by the fine print, why not
just make the fine print say “no fake data points”?

Personally, I do this quite often (start doing a task but forget to start
the timer). As soon as I realize it, I typically (1) estimate the amount
of time I have already spent and enter a data point, and then (2) start the
timer. I always try to estimate (1) as accurately as I can; I don’t find
myself tempted to report inflated estimates. Over the long run, it
probably all averages out. Ideally, of course, I would always remember to
start the timer—and I do try to remember—but realistically, there will
always be times when I forget. In fact, the times when I forget are often
the times when I am being so productive/in the flow that I really want to
do the goal, or I have made the goal an automatic habit, and I just get
right on to doing it without remembering that I am supposed to track it!
That being the case, it seems particularly silly to penalize myself by
saying the work I did without the timer running doesn’t count, because I
want to encourage this sort of behavior.

If you are really worried about this, however, it is exactly what TagTime
is designed for: http://messymatters.com/tagtime/ . You never have to
worry about remembering to start a timer, in exchange for a loss of
precision in measuring the amount of time spent doing any particular
thing. I find it works well for big goals, like spending 40 hours/week on
work, or 10 hours/week on reading or research or studying, but it doesn’t
work well for smaller goals like spending 30 minutes or 1 hour per week
doing something, because the variation is just too high. (You could have
TagTime ping you more frequently to get a higher resolution, but that just
starts to get annoying and disruptive.)

-Brent

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 12:09 AM, Pankaj More pankajmore@gmail.com wrote:

Hello Akratics!

I have set up some goals which are timer based. To prevent me from
entering any data which might be fake, I have setup the fine print on these
goals to say that only data points allowed are beedroid’s timer entry.

Now, when I start working on the goal, I usually forget to start the
timer. Does anyone else also have this problem? Since I cannot enter any
manual data, I have to redo the goal again after starting the timer. Any
suggestions please.

Thanks,
Pankaj


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"Akratics Anonymous" group.
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#3

I should also add that for me, the dual situation is a much bigger problem:
starting the timer but forgetting to STOP it when I finish the task or get
distracted. It’s much harder to accurately estimate the amount of time
spent in that case, especially if I got distracted.

-Brent

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Brent Yorgey byorgey@gmail.com wrote:

Do you really need this fine print? It sounds like this fine print about
only using timer data points would only be helpful if you were (a)
dishonest enough to enter fake data points, BUT (b) honest enough to abide
by the fine print! It sounds like (b) is true since you are apparently
willing to redo goals just because of your fine print. So are you really
worried about (a)? If you are willing to abide by the fine print, why not
just make the fine print say “no fake data points”?

Personally, I do this quite often (start doing a task but forget to start
the timer). As soon as I realize it, I typically (1) estimate the amount
of time I have already spent and enter a data point, and then (2) start the
timer. I always try to estimate (1) as accurately as I can; I don’t find
myself tempted to report inflated estimates. Over the long run, it
probably all averages out. Ideally, of course, I would always remember to
start the timer—and I do try to remember—but realistically, there will
always be times when I forget. In fact, the times when I forget are often
the times when I am being so productive/in the flow that I really want to
do the goal, or I have made the goal an automatic habit, and I just get
right on to doing it without remembering that I am supposed to track it!
That being the case, it seems particularly silly to penalize myself by
saying the work I did without the timer running doesn’t count, because I
want to encourage this sort of behavior.

If you are really worried about this, however, it is exactly what TagTime
is designed for: http://messymatters.com/tagtime/ . You never have to
worry about remembering to start a timer, in exchange for a loss of
precision in measuring the amount of time spent doing any particular
thing. I find it works well for big goals, like spending 40 hours/week on
work, or 10 hours/week on reading or research or studying, but it doesn’t
work well for smaller goals like spending 30 minutes or 1 hour per week
doing something, because the variation is just too high. (You could have
TagTime ping you more frequently to get a higher resolution, but that just
starts to get annoying and disruptive.)

-Brent

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 12:09 AM, Pankaj More pankajmore@gmail.com wrote:

Hello Akratics!

I have set up some goals which are timer based. To prevent me from
entering any data which might be fake, I have setup the fine print on these
goals to say that only data points allowed are beedroid’s timer entry.

Now, when I start working on the goal, I usually forget to start the
timer. Does anyone else also have this problem? Since I cannot enter any
manual data, I have to redo the goal again after starting the timer. Any
suggestions please.

Thanks,
Pankaj


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#4

I haven’t tried this, but maybe you could set up tasker to play some specific music or other sound while the timer is running. In that way you might get used to hearing that sound while you do your task. Once you are used to this, you might quickly notice when the sound is not playing, and thus the timer is not running (or still playing when you finished your task).

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 6:52 AM, Brent Yorgey byorgey@gmail.com wrote:

Do you really need this fine print? It sounds like this fine print about
only using timer data points would only be helpful if you were (a)
dishonest enough to enter fake data points, BUT (b) honest enough to abide
by the fine print! It sounds like (b) is true since you are apparently
willing to redo goals just because of your fine print. So are you really
worried about (a)? If you are willing to abide by the fine print, why not
just make the fine print say “no fake data points”?
Personally, I do this quite often (start doing a task but forget to start
the timer). As soon as I realize it, I typically (1) estimate the amount
of time I have already spent and enter a data point, and then (2) start the
timer. I always try to estimate (1) as accurately as I can; I don’t find
myself tempted to report inflated estimates. Over the long run, it
probably all averages out. Ideally, of course, I would always remember to
start the timer—and I do try to remember—but realistically, there will
always be times when I forget. In fact, the times when I forget are often
the times when I am being so productive/in the flow that I really want to
do the goal, or I have made the goal an automatic habit, and I just get
right on to doing it without remembering that I am supposed to track it!
That being the case, it seems particularly silly to penalize myself by
saying the work I did without the timer running doesn’t count, because I
want to encourage this sort of behavior.
If you are really worried about this, however, it is exactly what TagTime
is designed for: http://messymatters.com/tagtime/ . You never have to
worry about remembering to start a timer, in exchange for a loss of
precision in measuring the amount of time spent doing any particular
thing. I find it works well for big goals, like spending 40 hours/week on
work, or 10 hours/week on reading or research or studying, but it doesn’t
work well for smaller goals like spending 30 minutes or 1 hour per week
doing something, because the variation is just too high. (You could have
TagTime ping you more frequently to get a higher resolution, but that just
starts to get annoying and disruptive.)
-Brent
On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 12:09 AM, Pankaj More pankajmore@gmail.com wrote:

Hello Akratics!

I have set up some goals which are timer based. To prevent me from
entering any data which might be fake, I have setup the fine print on these
goals to say that only data points allowed are beedroid’s timer entry.

Now, when I start working on the goal, I usually forget to start the
timer. Does anyone else also have this problem? Since I cannot enter any
manual data, I have to redo the goal again after starting the timer. Any
suggestions please.

Thanks,
Pankaj


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#5

FWIW, forgetting to start and stop timers is exactly why I moved to tagtime
on my phone for some of my goals which I could legitimately just use a
timer for (but I was already using it for a bunch of things where a timer
wasn’t a feasible solution, so it was lower cost to do that for me than it
may be for you)

On 9 October 2014 06:09, Pankaj More pankajmore@gmail.com wrote:

Hello Akratics!

I have set up some goals which are timer based. To prevent me from
entering any data which might be fake, I have setup the fine print on these
goals to say that only data points allowed are beedroid’s timer entry.

Now, when I start working on the goal, I usually forget to start the
timer. Does anyone else also have this problem? Since I cannot enter any
manual data, I have to redo the goal again after starting the timer. Any
suggestions please.

Thanks,
Pankaj


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
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email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


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#6

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Brent Yorgey byorgey@gmail.com wrote:

Do you really need this fine print? It sounds like this fine print about
only using timer data points would only be helpful if you were (a)
dishonest enough to enter fake data points, BUT (b) honest enough to abide
by the fine print! It sounds like (b) is true since you are apparently
willing to redo goals just because of your fine print. So are you really
worried about (a)? If you are willing to abide by the fine print, why not
just make the fine print say “no fake data points”?

I am worried about a because I used to do it in a previous life. Timers are
harder to “fake” then manual data points. Maybe I can try this again and
see if I need to still worry about (a).

Personally, I do this quite often (start doing a task but forget to start
the timer). As soon as I realize it, I typically (1) estimate the amount
of time I have already spent and enter a data point, and then (2) start the
timer. I always try to estimate (1) as accurately as I can; I don’t find
myself tempted to report inflated estimates. Over the long run, it
probably all averages out. Ideally, of course, I would always remember to
start the timer—and I do try to remember—but realistically, there will
always be times when I forget. In fact, the times when I forget are often
the times when I am being so productive/in the flow that I really want to
do the goal, or I have made the goal an automatic habit, and I just get
right on to doing it without remembering that I am supposed to track it!
That being the case, it seems particularly silly to penalize myself by
saying the work I did without the timer running doesn’t count, because I
want to encourage this sort of behavior.

If you are really worried about this, however, it is exactly what TagTime
is designed for: http://messymatters.com/tagtime/ . You never have to
worry about remembering to start a timer, in exchange for a loss of
precision in measuring the amount of time spent doing any particular
thing. I find it works well for big goals, like spending 40 hours/week on
work, or 10 hours/week on reading or research or studying, but it doesn’t
work well for smaller goals like spending 30 minutes or 1 hour per week
doing something, because the variation is just too high. (You could have
TagTime ping you more frequently to get a higher resolution, but that just
starts to get annoying and disruptive.)

How does Tagtime work on android? Last time I tried it was pretty
distracting compared to the desktop version. Moreover, I have primarily
switched to chromebooks and tagtime on desktop is not an option.

-Brent

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 12:09 AM, Pankaj More pankajmore@gmail.com wrote:

Hello Akratics!

I have set up some goals which are timer based. To prevent me from
entering any data which might be fake, I have setup the fine print on these
goals to say that only data points allowed are beedroid’s timer entry.

Now, when I start working on the goal, I usually forget to start the
timer. Does anyone else also have this problem? Since I cannot enter any
manual data, I have to redo the goal again after starting the timer. Any
suggestions please.

Thanks,
Pankaj


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#7

tagtime on desktop makes a lot of sense. How do you use with on mobile
without getting distracted? On desktop, it does not break the flow. On
mobile, it feels like an interruption.

Most of my goals are <= 30 mins//day and contiguous(done in one sitting). I
am yet to see if any one is effectively able to use TagTime on android.

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 1:47 PM, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

FWIW, forgetting to start and stop timers is exactly why I moved to
tagtime on my phone for some of my goals which I could legitimately just
use a timer for (but I was already using it for a bunch of things where a
timer wasn’t a feasible solution, so it was lower cost to do that for me
than it may be for you)

On 9 October 2014 06:09, Pankaj More pankajmore@gmail.com wrote:

Hello Akratics!

I have set up some goals which are timer based. To prevent me from
entering any data which might be fake, I have setup the fine print on these
goals to say that only data points allowed are beedroid’s timer entry.

Now, when I start working on the goal, I usually forget to start the
timer. Does anyone else also have this problem? Since I cannot enter any
manual data, I have to redo the goal again after starting the timer. Any
suggestions please.

Thanks,
Pankaj


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"Akratics Anonymous" group.
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#8

I mostly just don’t find it that distracting. You get used to it just being
a habitual thing you do when it pings. If it pings when you’re really right
in the middle of something you wait until you finish that something and
then fill it in after. Once you’re used to it I just don’t find it that
distracting.

As to “yet to see if any one is effectively able to use TagTime on
android”, well I have 9 goals that are powered by tagtime on android and
have kept this up for most of the last 4 months without any real problem,
so I guess I’m an existence proof?

On 9 October 2014 19:46, Pankaj More pankajmore@gmail.com wrote:

tagtime on desktop makes a lot of sense. How do you use with on mobile
without getting distracted? On desktop, it does not break the flow. On
mobile, it feels like an interruption.

Most of my goals are <= 30 mins//day and contiguous(done in one sitting).
I am yet to see if any one is effectively able to use TagTime on android.

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 1:47 PM, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

FWIW, forgetting to start and stop timers is exactly why I moved to
tagtime on my phone for some of my goals which I could legitimately just
use a timer for (but I was already using it for a bunch of things where a
timer wasn’t a feasible solution, so it was lower cost to do that for me
than it may be for you)

On 9 October 2014 06:09, Pankaj More pankajmore@gmail.com wrote:

Hello Akratics!

I have set up some goals which are timer based. To prevent me from
entering any data which might be fake, I have setup the fine print on these
goals to say that only data points allowed are beedroid’s timer entry.

Now, when I start working on the goal, I usually forget to start the
timer. Does anyone else also have this problem? Since I cannot enter any
manual data, I have to redo the goal again after starting the timer. Any
suggestions please.

Thanks,
Pankaj


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#9

Oh, also historically I used a system to keep me while ahead of the panic
zone on goals so I could afford to have tagtime more coarse grained - when
it only pings you once an hour or so it’s not that distracting even when
you’re not used to it. Due to reasons I’ve stopped doing that so have had
to ramp up the frequency, but it probably helped that I increased it
gradually.

On 10 October 2014 10:22, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

I mostly just don’t find it that distracting. You get used to it just
being a habitual thing you do when it pings. If it pings when you’re really
right in the middle of something you wait until you finish that something
and then fill it in after. Once you’re used to it I just don’t find it that
distracting.

As to “yet to see if any one is effectively able to use TagTime on
android”, well I have 9 goals that are powered by tagtime on android and
have kept this up for most of the last 4 months without any real problem,
so I guess I’m an existence proof?

On 9 October 2014 19:46, Pankaj More pankajmore@gmail.com wrote:

tagtime on desktop makes a lot of sense. How do you use with on mobile
without getting distracted? On desktop, it does not break the flow. On
mobile, it feels like an interruption.

Most of my goals are <= 30 mins//day and contiguous(done in one sitting).
I am yet to see if any one is effectively able to use TagTime on android.

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 1:47 PM, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com
wrote:

FWIW, forgetting to start and stop timers is exactly why I moved to
tagtime on my phone for some of my goals which I could legitimately just
use a timer for (but I was already using it for a bunch of things where a
timer wasn’t a feasible solution, so it was lower cost to do that for me
than it may be for you)

On 9 October 2014 06:09, Pankaj More pankajmore@gmail.com wrote:

Hello Akratics!

I have set up some goals which are timer based. To prevent me from
entering any data which might be fake, I have setup the fine print on these
goals to say that only data points allowed are beedroid’s timer entry.

Now, when I start working on the goal, I usually forget to start the
timer. Does anyone else also have this problem? Since I cannot enter any
manual data, I have to redo the goal again after starting the timer. Any
suggestions please.

Thanks,
Pankaj


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#10

Brent and David, brilliant responses here!
I was just going to chime in that if you do find yourself skating the
edge of a Beeminder road that’s based on TagTime data, you can use
this tool to see the real-time probability of derailing and adjust
your panicking accordingly: tminder.meteor.com

Or a safer heuristic is don’t go to sleep until you’re in the right
lane (blue dots). That makes it roughly impossible for bad luck with
the random sampling to derail you.

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 1:24 AM, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

Oh, also historically I used a system to keep me while ahead of the panic
zone on goals so I could afford to have tagtime more coarse grained - when
it only pings you once an hour or so it’s not that distracting even when
you’re not used to it. Due to reasons I’ve stopped doing that so have had to
ramp up the frequency, but it probably helped that I increased it gradually.

On 10 October 2014 10:22, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

I mostly just don’t find it that distracting. You get used to it just
being a habitual thing you do when it pings. If it pings when you’re really
right in the middle of something you wait until you finish that something
and then fill it in after. Once you’re used to it I just don’t find it that
distracting.

As to “yet to see if any one is effectively able to use TagTime on
android”, well I have 9 goals that are powered by tagtime on android and
have kept this up for most of the last 4 months without any real problem, so
I guess I’m an existence proof?

On 9 October 2014 19:46, Pankaj More pankajmore@gmail.com wrote:

tagtime on desktop makes a lot of sense. How do you use with on mobile
without getting distracted? On desktop, it does not break the flow. On
mobile, it feels like an interruption.

Most of my goals are <= 30 mins//day and contiguous(done in one sitting).
I am yet to see if any one is effectively able to use TagTime on android.

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 1:47 PM, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com
wrote:

FWIW, forgetting to start and stop timers is exactly why I moved to
tagtime on my phone for some of my goals which I could legitimately just use
a timer for (but I was already using it for a bunch of things where a timer
wasn’t a feasible solution, so it was lower cost to do that for me than it
may be for you)

On 9 October 2014 06:09, Pankaj More pankajmore@gmail.com wrote:

Hello Akratics!

I have set up some goals which are timer based. To prevent me from
entering any data which might be fake, I have setup the fine print on these
goals to say that only data points allowed are beedroid’s timer entry.

Now, when I start working on the goal, I usually forget to start the
timer. Does anyone else also have this problem? Since I cannot enter any
manual data, I have to redo the goal again after starting the timer. Any
suggestions please.

Thanks,
Pankaj


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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com