help us decide about a price hike for beeminder premium plans


#41

(obviously given my prior stance on private data, I think any such ranking
if you were to create one should be opt-outable and preferably opted out by
default)

On 16 July 2014 08:49, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

Heh. Actually… there is one metric that it’s just occurred to me
would be an interesting thing to add as a ranking, but you probably
shouldn’t do it because it will hurt your bottom line!

You could add a “hall of shame” ranking for total amount of pledges paid.

On 16 July 2014 06:30, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Brian, thanks for this idea, even though I’m tentatively siding with
David and Jeff. We’re being super slow on social features because
Bethany and I mostly hate that stuff. :slight_smile: We finally added the
Supporters feature a while back though –
blog.beeminder.com/supporters – and next we’ll probably at least add
an easy way to share progress on facebook or something. After we have
basic stuff like that in place we’ll revisit ideas like leaderboards.
Oh, group goals is another thing that we’re tempted to add sooner
rather than later. (Just a dirt simple version where multiple people
can add datapoints to a single graph and they all get charged if it
derails.) We’d love to get a sense of how many people are clamoring
for that. Upvoting and adding thoughts uservoice would be a good way
to do that:
http://beeminder.uservoice.com/forums/3011-general/suggestions/2528624-group-goals-on-user-page-by-user-defined-categorie

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Jeff Alexander
analyticphilosophy@gmail.com wrote:

I agree with David MacIver. My suggestion of a metric should not be
taken as
an endorsement of the existence of such metrics.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 4:11 PM, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com
wrote:

I’m not super keen on the idea of rankings. The problem is that
beeminder

is only really useful relative to how hard it is for you to stick to
the

goals on your own. If you make a game of it then it just provides
incentives

to “cheat”. e.g. if you were to use days since derail as a metric of
"success" you’d just be providing people who cared about their social
ranking with an incentive against harder goals.

(I mean, obviously to a certain degree, the pledges themselves already
count as that, but it feels like there’s something fundamentally
different

here)

On 15 July 2014 21:53, Jeff Alexander analyticphilosophy@gmail.com
wrote:

days_since_derail, maybe scaled against total number of beeminded
goals?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Brian Ball ideabrian@gmail.com
wrote:

Right. To rank people, you’d have to have rankings for an activity.

Steps taken with FitBit. Hours slept with Zeo? Number of YouTube
followers? BMI?

Rather than having the whole social rank concept be overwhelming - we
could certainly start with a single, trackable thing that most
people can

engage with (walking, writing, tweeting).

We won’t all care about all the trackables - so there should be
points

that could accumulate to an overall rank. Maybe somebody is #1 in
steps per

day - but they don’t BeeMind anything else - so they only get 1000
points

for that category. If they want more points (to rank in the global
distrubition) they would have to track more things (thus encouraging
more

use).

Ideas?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, David Ernst david@dsernst.com
wrote:

Interesting. What’s the measure for ranking?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Brian Ball ideabrian@gmail.com
wrote:

Re: Social Status

I’m not good at BeeMinding. I don’t know what. I’m akratic. Am I
apathetic? Am I just not conditioned to respond appropriately?

However, I can think of a way that would be fun for me to
participate.

  1. Give BeeMinding a social status and rank.

If I see I’m 10,203 out of 10,300 - well, I can see I’ve got
10,000+

people I can “learn” from. That ability to connect and learn with
people

that are just a few steps ahead of me would be invaluable.

It would give me motivation, social interaction, and data. Also,
the

nature of competition speaks to our lizard brain. We want to win
the

‘battle’ for survival and so it helps heighten our ‘focus’ (which
is

probably my biggest challenge with all this.)

So, speak to my lizard brain directly - and you can have all my
money.

-Brian

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 2:15 PM, David Ernst david@ernsts.us
wrote:

Hear you on the point that offering credit could soften the
stingy-ness of derailments. BUT what does that lead to? Maybe it
takes a $10

pledge to offer the same sting as $5 now. Thanks to
http://blog.beeminder.com/exponential/ &
http://blog.beeminder.com/nwo/

that’s just one derailment away :slight_smile:

The automatically increasing nature of pledges would still adjust
to

Most Effective Sting.

And in the process they get more opportunity to upgrade and y’all
get

more return for all your hard work.

On Monday, July 14, 2014 4:24:31 PM UTC-4, Daniel Reeves wrote:

Alex and David E, thank you so much for this! Brilliant ideas
here.

This is going to hugely helpful as we put more love into premium
plans. I too am curious about others’ thoughts on the idea of
counting
pledges as credits toward premium. I actually mentioned that
possibility to Bethany the other day (I’m not sure who first had
the

idea but it’s been kicking around a long time – probably
originated

on this list) and she recoiled in horror. It is dangerous
because it

softens the stingy-ness of derailments.

I agree about TagTime. Note that it’s open-source –
github.com/dreeves/TagTime – so we’d love to entice you to
help us

give it the love it desperately needs. :slight_smile:

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 3:54 AM, David Ernst da...@ernsts.us
wrote:

Hi all,

I was going to link to Patio11’s beloved

https://training.kalzumeus.com/newsletters/archive/saas_pricing.

Glad you
guys are already thinking along those lines.

Reviewing Patrick’s post again, and looking at the
plans/pricing

as they are
now, I can’t help but notice a major gap: It’s unclear to me
what

“Bee
Lite”, “Plan B”, “Beemium”, and “Beekeeper” translate to.
Seriously, I’m
baffled.

Patrick’s over there trying to make the point: Segment your
customers! Who
are they and how do they get value from you? What did they
come to

you for
and what do they want??

And all I see from these plans is Plan A, B, C, & D. So they’re
ordered,
sure, but who are they for? I certainly don’t know which of
these

categories
I fit into. In the current scheme or the new one you propose.
And note,
I’ve been a user for months, & read nearly all your blog posts,
discussions
here, FAQs, etc, and still this leaves me confused.

Just throwing this out there, I would imagine segmentation more
along the
lines of:

New Bee: “Dip your toes into world of Beeminder”. (No
subscription

cost)

The core Beeminder experience. The free plan that new users
start

off on.
Basic commitment pledges, a few private goals, & less (than
now,

even)
things to distract one with.

Worker Bee: “Be even more productive, with less work”.
($10/mo?

$20? idk,
test it!)

“Pro” things like unlimited private Beeminds, custom goals,
auto-ratcheting,
configurable ratcheting, SMS integration, weaselproofing, tips
of

the day.

Super Bee: “All the things.” ($35/mo? Dunno)

The fun toys for the true lover of quantified-self. Free
short-circuiting,
unlimited free-bees (for more experimentation), change goal
URLs,

"fancy
data nerd features like turquoise swath and moving average line
(HT Paul
Fenwick) ", “expose more advanced settings”, early access to
test

out new
features.

What you currently list as Beekeeper, separate out into a more
distinct
product. Don’t confuse it with the plans. Because it’s not
really

the same,
right? A human beeing (ha). Fundamentally different from any of
the plans.
Maybe joining the Beekeeper program could include a 30-day
trial

of Super
Bee as an additional perk, and then half price on all plans
after

that. But
I would try to separate it otherwise from the subscription
plans.

Because
you know, one is increased software options, and one is a
person

that gives
their time to you. And I’m not sure the two are so directly
related. E.g. I
could see more Free Plan users buying coaching, even though
they

don’t need
more software features, but the current ascending list confuses
them away.

Also, I would make it clearer that you’re getting a Beekeeper.
The

way it’s
currently written on the Premium Plans page suggests the user
is

the
Beekeeper. I think it would be more compelling to say "A
beekeeper

to take
care of you". Maybe this is just semantics, yet right now I
default to
reading the listing not as "want someone to look after you?"
but

“want to
make bees your occupation?”. Subconsciously, it feels like more
work.

On a different note, I’m very curious how these premium plans
intersect with
pledge revenue. My hunch is that signing up for premium would
cause a user
to Beemind more things (thank you sunk cost fallacy). Thus more
pledge’d
money at stake, and (thus?) more pledged revenue. Does raising
the

price of
these plans cause less people to take their relationship to the
next stage,
and then also hurt pledge revenue? In other words, does
optimizing

subscription revenue come at a cost of pledge revenue? Of
course,

I’m making
too many uninformed assumptions…

Thinking more on this theme, what about using money delivered
from

pledges
as credit to spend on the premium plans? Thus avoiding the
potential
zero-sum dilemma above. And the user feels a bit less bad
financially when
they fall off the road, because they can still “use” those
credits

towards
premium. Maybe they’ll put more money on the line, because
"hey,

if I fail,
then at least I can still use it for a premium subscription!"
And

then more
New Bees convert to premium status, great! And all the while,
Beeminder Inc
doesn’t lose revenue from this arrangement because the money
still

gets
charged, and for the most part those premium features have
trivial

marginal
cost. It’s just letting the pledged money go farther (get
double

“spent”).
Is this too radical? Maybe. Would love to hear others’
opinions on

it.

One last thing. Without changing the subject too much, if we’re
still
talking about finding more sources of revenue, I would strongly
suggest
giving TagTime some love. It seems like there is a seriously
great product
there. And such a perfect complement to what Beeminder already
offers. Why
not bring it into the family more tightly? It clear from
reading

your blogs
etc that you guys make such heavy usage of it, but I wonder how
many users
do too? I don’t know! I haven’t even ever been able to get it
working
(Windows & iOS – ugh, I know). Yet it seems to hold such
promise.

If it was
more of a 1-click install (“Beeminder Desktop”), and offered a
no-bullshit
GUI decoupled from cmd, it could be much more accessible for
the

average
Beeminder. And seriously improve the value of the whole package
for the
user.

— My 02¢. Hope this helps.

On Saturday, July 12, 2014 2:43:26 PM UTC-4, Alex Schell wrote:

In my view you could bundle retroratchet, configurable
retroratchet, and
auto-trimming of safety buffer at the same premium level, or
maybe just move
retroratchet to Bee Lite. These all feel like advanced tools
that

are nice
to have but aren’t essential to beeminding. (My guess is that
retroratchet
is relatively rarely used to non-premium users, and that the
advanced
retroratchet features wouldn’t be used much by the non-premium
user
population even if they could use them.)

Re: private graphs, why not treat these like you do freebees?
2-4

free
secret goals would be reasonable IMO, and this takes care of
the

concern
that enforced public goals are a barrier to initial
beeminding.

If you do
this, consider not displaying mystery goals in people’s
galleries.

Have you thought about offering free trials of premium plans?

On Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:52:02 PM UTC-4, Daniel Reeves
wrote:

This is super valuable feedback! Let me quote ourselves from
blog.beeminder.com/premium (under “No Carrots For You”):

Seriously, we are all about the stick. We do not intend to
hold

important features as dangling carrots. Premium plans are
still

an
experiment but we’re committed to keeping the non-premium
Beeminder a
highly functional tool for maximizing the awesomeness of
humans

prone
to procrastination and other forms of akrasia. In fact, the
only

things that we’re going to charge for are:

  1. Features that directly thwart our revenue model, i.e.,
    unlimited
    freebees and free short-circuiting (or in the future:
    choosing

the
beneficiary of your commitment contract [1])
2. Things that may confuse newbees (we’re not sure yet
whether

customizable retroratcheting and auto-ratcheting fall in this
category)
3. Goodies that are incidental to the process of beeminding,
like fitness
tips
4. Things that cost us money to provide (we may make the SMS
bot

a
premium feature for this reason)

I hope I didn’t overcommit us with that. I no longer think
that

“the
free version of Beeminder must be a fully functional
anti-akrasia
tool” is an important principle. I might like the idea that
anyone
who’s at all serious about Beeminder should be premium,
which is

obviously not the case now. In any case, here’s a list of
possible
current features to make premium:

  1. SMS bot (HT dyang)
  2. Retroratchet
  3. Take A Break
  4. fancy data nerd features like turquoise swath and moving
    average
    line (HT Paul Fenwick)
  5. private graphs
  6. beeminder.com/widgets
  7. weaselproofing
  8. no-mercy recommit
  9. auto-quit
  10. fine print
  11. supporters
  12. panic threshold
  13. goal unit rescaling

And here are potential future premium features:

  1. choose a beneficiary or at least charity percentage
  2. zeno SMS (could also think about international SMS, which
    costs
    more and has to be set up for each country in twilio)
  3. super exclusive google group (maybe akratics anonymous
    could

become that after moving to discourse?)
17. expose more advanced settings
18. weasel-immunity (opposite of weaselproofing, where you
can

self-service cancel charges and undo recommit)
19. expose more advanced settings
20. profile badges? (HT dyang)
21. early access to new features? (HT dyang)

[1] http://blog.beeminder.com/premium/#BEN

On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 12:48 PM, David MacIver
da...@drmaciver.com
wrote:

On 10 July 2014 21:36, Daniel Reeves <dre...@beeminder.com

wrote:

One more item for consideration: What if we added a Fuzzy
Buzzy plan
at $2/mo (less than 7 cents a day!) with the only perk
being

the warm
fuzzy feeling of supporting Beeminder (maybe also tips of
the

day)?

So one problem I think is that honestly the premium plans
all

mostly
feel
like this anyway.

You’ve built a really good service that I like a lot… the
problem is
that
basically all the things I like are present in the free
plan,

and
everything
added by the premium plans is pretty uninteresting on top
of

that.

(OTOH you’ve reminded me that I do like the service enough
to

support
it
more than the measly $5/month I was paying, so I’ve
upgraded

my account
anyway)

Obviously this is massive backseat driving and you should
feel

free to
ignore everything I say, especially as I have literally no
idea what
your
user patterns look like, but I rather feel like you might
be

better off
removing functionality from the free plan into the bee lite
plan than
raising the prices on the premium ones.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
from

it, send
an
email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google

Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
it,

send an
email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in
the

Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/akratics/QnzWuaM441M/unsubscribe
.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send

an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send

an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


What’s in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability
to

see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that
you can

make it more. (Alan J. Perlis)


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups

“Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an

email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups

“Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an

email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


What’s in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to
see
the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can
make
it more. (Alan J. Perlis)


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


#42

Ha, well, it’s not necessarily (or even typically) shameful! The
people who get lots of kicks in the pants (stings, we should say) are
the ones getting massive value out of Beeminder. We have people who
average hundreds of dollars a month of paid pledges and consider it
easily worth that much. (But yes to the privacy point.)

Related: https://trello.com/c/XAJnQtMD/40-embarrassed-to-be-minded

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:49 PM, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

Heh. Actually… there is one metric that it’s just occurred to me would be
an interesting thing to add as a ranking, but you probably shouldn’t do it
because it will hurt your bottom line!

You could add a “hall of shame” ranking for total amount of pledges paid.

On 16 July 2014 06:30, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Brian, thanks for this idea, even though I’m tentatively siding with
David and Jeff. We’re being super slow on social features because
Bethany and I mostly hate that stuff. :slight_smile: We finally added the
Supporters feature a while back though –
blog.beeminder.com/supporters – and next we’ll probably at least add
an easy way to share progress on facebook or something. After we have
basic stuff like that in place we’ll revisit ideas like leaderboards.
Oh, group goals is another thing that we’re tempted to add sooner
rather than later. (Just a dirt simple version where multiple people
can add datapoints to a single graph and they all get charged if it
derails.) We’d love to get a sense of how many people are clamoring
for that. Upvoting and adding thoughts uservoice would be a good way
to do that:
http://beeminder.uservoice.com/forums/3011-general/suggestions/2528624-group-goals-on-user-page-by-user-defined-categorie

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Jeff Alexander
analyticphilosophy@gmail.com wrote:

I agree with David MacIver. My suggestion of a metric should not be
taken as
an endorsement of the existence of such metrics.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 4:11 PM, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com
wrote:

I’m not super keen on the idea of rankings. The problem is that
beeminder
is only really useful relative to how hard it is for you to stick to
the
goals on your own. If you make a game of it then it just provides
incentives
to “cheat”. e.g. if you were to use days since derail as a metric of
"success" you’d just be providing people who cared about their social
ranking with an incentive against harder goals.

(I mean, obviously to a certain degree, the pledges themselves already
count as that, but it feels like there’s something fundamentally
different
here)

On 15 July 2014 21:53, Jeff Alexander analyticphilosophy@gmail.com
wrote:

days_since_derail, maybe scaled against total number of beeminded
goals?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Brian Ball ideabrian@gmail.com
wrote:

Right. To rank people, you’d have to have rankings for an activity.

Steps taken with FitBit. Hours slept with Zeo? Number of YouTube
followers? BMI?

Rather than having the whole social rank concept be overwhelming - we
could certainly start with a single, trackable thing that most people
can
engage with (walking, writing, tweeting).

We won’t all care about all the trackables - so there should be
points
that could accumulate to an overall rank. Maybe somebody is #1 in
steps per
day - but they don’t BeeMind anything else - so they only get 1000
points
for that category. If they want more points (to rank in the global
distrubition) they would have to track more things (thus encouraging
more
use).

Ideas?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, David Ernst david@dsernst.com
wrote:

Interesting. What’s the measure for ranking?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Brian Ball ideabrian@gmail.com
wrote:

Re: Social Status

I’m not good at BeeMinding. I don’t know what. I’m akratic. Am I
apathetic? Am I just not conditioned to respond appropriately?

However, I can think of a way that would be fun for me to
participate.

  1. Give BeeMinding a social status and rank.

If I see I’m 10,203 out of 10,300 - well, I can see I’ve got
10,000+
people I can “learn” from. That ability to connect and learn with
people
that are just a few steps ahead of me would be invaluable.

It would give me motivation, social interaction, and data. Also,
the
nature of competition speaks to our lizard brain. We want to win
the
’battle’ for survival and so it helps heighten our ‘focus’ (which
is
probably my biggest challenge with all this.)

So, speak to my lizard brain directly - and you can have all my
money.

-Brian

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 2:15 PM, David Ernst david@ernsts.us
wrote:

Hear you on the point that offering credit could soften the
stingy-ness of derailments. BUT what does that lead to? Maybe it
takes a $10
pledge to offer the same sting as $5 now. Thanks to
http://blog.beeminder.com/exponential/ &
http://blog.beeminder.com/nwo/
that’s just one derailment away :slight_smile:

The automatically increasing nature of pledges would still adjust
to
Most Effective Sting.

And in the process they get more opportunity to upgrade and y’all
get
more return for all your hard work.

On Monday, July 14, 2014 4:24:31 PM UTC-4, Daniel Reeves wrote:

Alex and David E, thank you so much for this! Brilliant ideas
here.
This is going to hugely helpful as we put more love into premium
plans. I too am curious about others’ thoughts on the idea of
counting
pledges as credits toward premium. I actually mentioned that
possibility to Bethany the other day (I’m not sure who first had
the
idea but it’s been kicking around a long time – probably
originated
on this list) and she recoiled in horror. It is dangerous because
it
softens the stingy-ness of derailments.

I agree about TagTime. Note that it’s open-source –
github.com/dreeves/TagTime – so we’d love to entice you to help
us
give it the love it desperately needs. :slight_smile:

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 3:54 AM, David Ernst da...@ernsts.us
wrote:

Hi all,

I was going to link to Patio11’s beloved

https://training.kalzumeus.com/newsletters/archive/saas_pricing.
Glad you
guys are already thinking along those lines.

Reviewing Patrick’s post again, and looking at the
plans/pricing
as they are
now, I can’t help but notice a major gap: It’s unclear to me
what
"Bee
Lite", “Plan B”, “Beemium”, and “Beekeeper” translate to.
Seriously, I’m
baffled.

Patrick’s over there trying to make the point: Segment your
customers! Who
are they and how do they get value from you? What did they come
to
you for
and what do they want??

And all I see from these plans is Plan A, B, C, & D. So they’re
ordered,
sure, but who are they for? I certainly don’t know which of
these
categories
I fit into. In the current scheme or the new one you propose.
And note,
I’ve been a user for months, & read nearly all your blog posts,
discussions
here, FAQs, etc, and still this leaves me confused.

Just throwing this out there, I would imagine segmentation more
along the
lines of:

New Bee: “Dip your toes into world of Beeminder”. (No
subscription
cost)

The core Beeminder experience. The free plan that new users
start
off on.
Basic commitment pledges, a few private goals, & less (than
now,
even)
things to distract one with.

Worker Bee: “Be even more productive, with less work”.
($10/mo?
$20? idk,
test it!)

“Pro” things like unlimited private Beeminds, custom goals,
auto-ratcheting,
configurable ratcheting, SMS integration, weaselproofing, tips
of
the day.

Super Bee: “All the things.” ($35/mo? Dunno)

The fun toys for the true lover of quantified-self. Free
short-circuiting,
unlimited free-bees (for more experimentation), change goal
URLs,
"fancy
data nerd features like turquoise swath and moving average line
(HT Paul
Fenwick) ", “expose more advanced settings”, early access to
test
out new
features.

What you currently list as Beekeeper, separate out into a more
distinct
product. Don’t confuse it with the plans. Because it’s not
really
the same,
right? A human beeing (ha). Fundamentally different from any of
the plans.
Maybe joining the Beekeeper program could include a 30-day
trial
of Super
Bee as an additional perk, and then half price on all plans
after
that. But
I would try to separate it otherwise from the subscription
plans.
Because
you know, one is increased software options, and one is a
person
that gives
their time to you. And I’m not sure the two are so directly
related. E.g. I
could see more Free Plan users buying coaching, even though
they
don’t need
more software features, but the current ascending list confuses
them away.

Also, I would make it clearer that you’re getting a Beekeeper.
The
way it’s
currently written on the Premium Plans page suggests the user
is
the
Beekeeper. I think it would be more compelling to say “A
beekeeper
to take
care of you”. Maybe this is just semantics, yet right now I
default to
reading the listing not as "want someone to look after you?“
but
"want to
make bees your occupation?”. Subconsciously, it feels like more
work.

On a different note, I’m very curious how these premium plans
intersect with
pledge revenue. My hunch is that signing up for premium would
cause a user
to Beemind more things (thank you sunk cost fallacy). Thus more
pledge’d
money at stake, and (thus?) more pledged revenue. Does raising
the
price of
these plans cause less people to take their relationship to the
next stage,
and then also hurt pledge revenue? In other words, does
optimizing
subscription revenue come at a cost of pledge revenue? Of
course,
I’m making
too many uninformed assumptions…

Thinking more on this theme, what about using money delivered
from
pledges
as credit to spend on the premium plans? Thus avoiding the
potential
zero-sum dilemma above. And the user feels a bit less bad
financially when
they fall off the road, because they can still “use” those
credits
towards
premium. Maybe they’ll put more money on the line, because
"hey,
if I fail,
then at least I can still use it for a premium subscription!“
And
then more
New Bees convert to premium status, great! And all the while,
Beeminder Inc
doesn’t lose revenue from this arrangement because the money
still
gets
charged, and for the most part those premium features have
trivial
marginal
cost. It’s just letting the pledged money go farther (get
double
"spent”).
Is this too radical? Maybe. Would love to hear others’ opinions
on
it.

One last thing. Without changing the subject too much, if we’re
still
talking about finding more sources of revenue, I would strongly
suggest
giving TagTime some love. It seems like there is a seriously
great product
there. And such a perfect complement to what Beeminder already
offers. Why
not bring it into the family more tightly? It clear from
reading
your blogs
etc that you guys make such heavy usage of it, but I wonder how
many users
do too? I don’t know! I haven’t even ever been able to get it
working
(Windows & iOS – ugh, I know). Yet it seems to hold such
promise.
If it was
more of a 1-click install (“Beeminder Desktop”), and offered a
no-bullshit
GUI decoupled from cmd, it could be much more accessible for
the
average
Beeminder. And seriously improve the value of the whole package
for the
user.

— My 02¢. Hope this helps.

On Saturday, July 12, 2014 2:43:26 PM UTC-4, Alex Schell wrote:

In my view you could bundle retroratchet, configurable
retroratchet, and
auto-trimming of safety buffer at the same premium level, or
maybe just move
retroratchet to Bee Lite. These all feel like advanced tools
that
are nice
to have but aren’t essential to beeminding. (My guess is that
retroratchet
is relatively rarely used to non-premium users, and that the
advanced
retroratchet features wouldn’t be used much by the non-premium
user
population even if they could use them.)

Re: private graphs, why not treat these like you do freebees?
2-4
free
secret goals would be reasonable IMO, and this takes care of
the
concern
that enforced public goals are a barrier to initial
beeminding.
If you do
this, consider not displaying mystery goals in people’s
galleries.

Have you thought about offering free trials of premium plans?

On Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:52:02 PM UTC-4, Daniel Reeves
wrote:

This is super valuable feedback! Let me quote ourselves from
blog.beeminder.com/premium (under “No Carrots For You”):

Seriously, we are all about the stick. We do not intend to
hold
important features as dangling carrots. Premium plans are
still
an
experiment but we’re committed to keeping the non-premium
Beeminder a
highly functional tool for maximizing the awesomeness of
humans
prone
to procrastination and other forms of akrasia. In fact, the
only
things that we’re going to charge for are:

  1. Features that directly thwart our revenue model, i.e.,
    unlimited
    freebees and free short-circuiting (or in the future:
    choosing
    the
    beneficiary of your commitment contract [1])
  2. Things that may confuse newbees (we’re not sure yet
    whether
    customizable retroratcheting and auto-ratcheting fall in this
    category)
  3. Goodies that are incidental to the process of beeminding,
    like fitness
    tips
  4. Things that cost us money to provide (we may make the SMS
    bot
    a
    premium feature for this reason)

I hope I didn’t overcommit us with that. I no longer think
that
"the
free version of Beeminder must be a fully functional
anti-akrasia
tool" is an important principle. I might like the idea that
anyone
who’s at all serious about Beeminder should be premium, which
is
obviously not the case now. In any case, here’s a list of
possible
current features to make premium:

  1. SMS bot (HT dyang)
  2. Retroratchet
  3. Take A Break
  4. fancy data nerd features like turquoise swath and moving
    average
    line (HT Paul Fenwick)
  5. private graphs
  6. beeminder.com/widgets
  7. weaselproofing
  8. no-mercy recommit
  9. auto-quit
  10. fine print
  11. supporters
  12. panic threshold
  13. goal unit rescaling

And here are potential future premium features:

  1. choose a beneficiary or at least charity percentage
  2. zeno SMS (could also think about international SMS, which
    costs
    more and has to be set up for each country in twilio)
  3. super exclusive google group (maybe akratics anonymous
    could
    become that after moving to discourse?)
  4. expose more advanced settings
  5. weasel-immunity (opposite of weaselproofing, where you
    can
    self-service cancel charges and undo recommit)
  6. expose more advanced settings
  7. profile badges? (HT dyang)
  8. early access to new features? (HT dyang)

[1] http://blog.beeminder.com/premium/#BEN

On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 12:48 PM, David MacIver
da...@drmaciver.com
wrote:

On 10 July 2014 21:36, Daniel Reeves dre...@beeminder.com
wrote:

One more item for consideration: What if we added a Fuzzy
Buzzy plan
at $2/mo (less than 7 cents a day!) with the only perk
being
the warm
fuzzy feeling of supporting Beeminder (maybe also tips of
the
day)?

So one problem I think is that honestly the premium plans
all
mostly
feel
like this anyway.

You’ve built a really good service that I like a lot… the
problem is
that
basically all the things I like are present in the free
plan,
and
everything
added by the premium plans is pretty uninteresting on top
of
that.

(OTOH you’ve reminded me that I do like the service enough
to
support
it
more than the measly $5/month I was paying, so I’ve
upgraded
my account
anyway)

Obviously this is massive backseat driving and you should
feel
free to
ignore everything I say, especially as I have literally no
idea what
your
user patterns look like, but I rather feel like you might
be
better off
removing functionality from the free plan into the bee lite
plan than
raising the prices on the premium ones.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
from
it, send
an
email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
it,
send an
email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in
the
Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/akratics/QnzWuaM441M/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send
an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send
an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


What’s in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability
to
see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that
you can
make it more. (Alan J. Perlis)


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


What’s in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to
see
the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can
make
it more. (Alan J. Perlis)


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


#43

Huh. Typical mind fallacy on my part I guess. I’ve so far found even a $5
pledge sufficient to stop me derailing. I guess it’s probably a good thing
most of your users don’t.
On 16 Jul 2014 09:04, “Daniel Reeves” dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Ha, well, it’s not necessarily (or even typically) shameful! The
people who get lots of kicks in the pants (stings, we should say) are
the ones getting massive value out of Beeminder. We have people who
average hundreds of dollars a month of paid pledges and consider it
easily worth that much. (But yes to the privacy point.)

Related: https://trello.com/c/XAJnQtMD/40-embarrassed-to-be-minded

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:49 PM, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com
wrote:

Heh. Actually… there is one metric that it’s just occurred to me would
be
an interesting thing to add as a ranking, but you probably shouldn’t do
it
because it will hurt your bottom line!

You could add a “hall of shame” ranking for total amount of pledges paid.

On 16 July 2014 06:30, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Brian, thanks for this idea, even though I’m tentatively siding with
David and Jeff. We’re being super slow on social features because
Bethany and I mostly hate that stuff. :slight_smile: We finally added the
Supporters feature a while back though –
blog.beeminder.com/supporters – and next we’ll probably at least add
an easy way to share progress on facebook or something. After we have
basic stuff like that in place we’ll revisit ideas like leaderboards.
Oh, group goals is another thing that we’re tempted to add sooner
rather than later. (Just a dirt simple version where multiple people
can add datapoints to a single graph and they all get charged if it
derails.) We’d love to get a sense of how many people are clamoring
for that. Upvoting and adding thoughts uservoice would be a good way
to do that:

http://beeminder.uservoice.com/forums/3011-general/suggestions/2528624-group-goals-on-user-page-by-user-defined-categorie

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Jeff Alexander
analyticphilosophy@gmail.com wrote:

I agree with David MacIver. My suggestion of a metric should not be
taken as
an endorsement of the existence of such metrics.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 4:11 PM, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com
wrote:

I’m not super keen on the idea of rankings. The problem is that
beeminder
is only really useful relative to how hard it is for you to stick to
the
goals on your own. If you make a game of it then it just provides
incentives
to “cheat”. e.g. if you were to use days since derail as a metric of
"success" you’d just be providing people who cared about their social
ranking with an incentive against harder goals.

(I mean, obviously to a certain degree, the pledges themselves
already

count as that, but it feels like there’s something fundamentally
different
here)

On 15 July 2014 21:53, Jeff Alexander analyticphilosophy@gmail.com
wrote:

days_since_derail, maybe scaled against total number of beeminded
goals?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Brian Ball ideabrian@gmail.com
wrote:

Right. To rank people, you’d have to have rankings for an activity.

Steps taken with FitBit. Hours slept with Zeo? Number of YouTube
followers? BMI?

Rather than having the whole social rank concept be overwhelming -
we

could certainly start with a single, trackable thing that most
people

can
engage with (walking, writing, tweeting).

We won’t all care about all the trackables - so there should be
points
that could accumulate to an overall rank. Maybe somebody is #1 in
steps per
day - but they don’t BeeMind anything else - so they only get 1000
points
for that category. If they want more points (to rank in the global
distrubition) they would have to track more things (thus
encouraging

more
use).

Ideas?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, David Ernst david@dsernst.com
wrote:

Interesting. What’s the measure for ranking?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Brian Ball ideabrian@gmail.com
wrote:

Re: Social Status

I’m not good at BeeMinding. I don’t know what. I’m akratic. Am I
apathetic? Am I just not conditioned to respond appropriately?

However, I can think of a way that would be fun for me to
participate.

  1. Give BeeMinding a social status and rank.

If I see I’m 10,203 out of 10,300 - well, I can see I’ve got
10,000+
people I can “learn” from. That ability to connect and learn with
people
that are just a few steps ahead of me would be invaluable.

It would give me motivation, social interaction, and data. Also,
the
nature of competition speaks to our lizard brain. We want to win
the
’battle’ for survival and so it helps heighten our ‘focus’ (which
is
probably my biggest challenge with all this.)

So, speak to my lizard brain directly - and you can have all my
money.

-Brian

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 2:15 PM, David Ernst david@ernsts.us
wrote:

Hear you on the point that offering credit could soften the
stingy-ness of derailments. BUT what does that lead to? Maybe it
takes a $10
pledge to offer the same sting as $5 now. Thanks to
http://blog.beeminder.com/exponential/ &
http://blog.beeminder.com/nwo/
that’s just one derailment away :slight_smile:

The automatically increasing nature of pledges would still
adjust

to
Most Effective Sting.

And in the process they get more opportunity to upgrade and
y’all

get
more return for all your hard work.

On Monday, July 14, 2014 4:24:31 PM UTC-4, Daniel Reeves wrote:

Alex and David E, thank you so much for this! Brilliant ideas
here.
This is going to hugely helpful as we put more love into
premium

plans. I too am curious about others’ thoughts on the idea of
counting
pledges as credits toward premium. I actually mentioned that
possibility to Bethany the other day (I’m not sure who first
had

the
idea but it’s been kicking around a long time – probably
originated
on this list) and she recoiled in horror. It is dangerous
because

it
softens the stingy-ness of derailments.

I agree about TagTime. Note that it’s open-source –
github.com/dreeves/TagTime – so we’d love to entice you to
help

us
give it the love it desperately needs. :slight_smile:

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 3:54 AM, David Ernst da...@ernsts.us
wrote:

Hi all,

I was going to link to Patio11’s beloved

https://training.kalzumeus.com/newsletters/archive/saas_pricing.

Glad you
guys are already thinking along those lines.

Reviewing Patrick’s post again, and looking at the
plans/pricing
as they are
now, I can’t help but notice a major gap: It’s unclear to me
what
"Bee
Lite", “Plan B”, “Beemium”, and “Beekeeper” translate to.
Seriously, I’m
baffled.

Patrick’s over there trying to make the point: Segment your
customers! Who
are they and how do they get value from you? What did they
come

to
you for
and what do they want??

And all I see from these plans is Plan A, B, C, & D. So
they’re

ordered,
sure, but who are they for? I certainly don’t know which of
these
categories
I fit into. In the current scheme or the new one you
propose.

And note,
I’ve been a user for months, & read nearly all your blog
posts,

discussions
here, FAQs, etc, and still this leaves me confused.

Just throwing this out there, I would imagine segmentation
more

along the
lines of:

New Bee: “Dip your toes into world of Beeminder”. (No
subscription
cost)

The core Beeminder experience. The free plan that new users
start
off on.
Basic commitment pledges, a few private goals, & less (than
now,
even)
things to distract one with.

Worker Bee: “Be even more productive, with less work”.
($10/mo?
$20? idk,
test it!)

“Pro” things like unlimited private Beeminds, custom goals,
auto-ratcheting,
configurable ratcheting, SMS integration, weaselproofing,
tips

of
the day.

Super Bee: “All the things.” ($35/mo? Dunno)

The fun toys for the true lover of quantified-self. Free
short-circuiting,
unlimited free-bees (for more experimentation), change goal
URLs,
"fancy
data nerd features like turquoise swath and moving average
line

(HT Paul
Fenwick) ", “expose more advanced settings”, early access to
test
out new
features.

What you currently list as Beekeeper, separate out into a
more

distinct
product. Don’t confuse it with the plans. Because it’s not
really
the same,
right? A human beeing (ha). Fundamentally different from any
of

the plans.
Maybe joining the Beekeeper program could include a 30-day
trial
of Super
Bee as an additional perk, and then half price on all plans
after
that. But
I would try to separate it otherwise from the subscription
plans.
Because
you know, one is increased software options, and one is a
person
that gives
their time to you. And I’m not sure the two are so directly
related. E.g. I
could see more Free Plan users buying coaching, even though
they
don’t need
more software features, but the current ascending list
confuses

them away.

Also, I would make it clearer that you’re getting a
Beekeeper.

The
way it’s
currently written on the Premium Plans page suggests the user
is
the
Beekeeper. I think it would be more compelling to say “A
beekeeper
to take
care of you”. Maybe this is just semantics, yet right now I
default to
reading the listing not as "want someone to look after you?“
but
"want to
make bees your occupation?”. Subconsciously, it feels like
more

work.

On a different note, I’m very curious how these premium plans
intersect with
pledge revenue. My hunch is that signing up for premium would
cause a user
to Beemind more things (thank you sunk cost fallacy). Thus
more

pledge’d
money at stake, and (thus?) more pledged revenue. Does
raising

the
price of
these plans cause less people to take their relationship to
the

next stage,
and then also hurt pledge revenue? In other words, does
optimizing
subscription revenue come at a cost of pledge revenue? Of
course,
I’m making
too many uninformed assumptions…

Thinking more on this theme, what about using money delivered
from
pledges
as credit to spend on the premium plans? Thus avoiding the
potential
zero-sum dilemma above. And the user feels a bit less bad
financially when
they fall off the road, because they can still “use” those
credits
towards
premium. Maybe they’ll put more money on the line, because
"hey,
if I fail,
then at least I can still use it for a premium subscription!“
And
then more
New Bees convert to premium status, great! And all the while,
Beeminder Inc
doesn’t lose revenue from this arrangement because the money
still
gets
charged, and for the most part those premium features have
trivial
marginal
cost. It’s just letting the pledged money go farther (get
double
"spent”).
Is this too radical? Maybe. Would love to hear others’
opinions

on
it.

One last thing. Without changing the subject too much, if
we’re

still
talking about finding more sources of revenue, I would
strongly

suggest
giving TagTime some love. It seems like there is a
seriously

great product
there. And such a perfect complement to what Beeminder
already

offers. Why
not bring it into the family more tightly? It clear from
reading
your blogs
etc that you guys make such heavy usage of it, but I wonder
how

many users
do too? I don’t know! I haven’t even ever been able to get it
working
(Windows & iOS – ugh, I know). Yet it seems to hold such
promise.
If it was
more of a 1-click install (“Beeminder Desktop”), and offered
a

no-bullshit
GUI decoupled from cmd, it could be much more accessible for
the
average
Beeminder. And seriously improve the value of the whole
package

for the
user.

— My 02¢. Hope this helps.

On Saturday, July 12, 2014 2:43:26 PM UTC-4, Alex Schell
wrote:

In my view you could bundle retroratchet, configurable
retroratchet, and
auto-trimming of safety buffer at the same premium level, or
maybe just move
retroratchet to Bee Lite. These all feel like advanced tools
that
are nice
to have but aren’t essential to beeminding. (My guess is
that

retroratchet
is relatively rarely used to non-premium users, and that the
advanced
retroratchet features wouldn’t be used much by the
non-premium

user
population even if they could use them.)

Re: private graphs, why not treat these like you do
freebees?

2-4
free
secret goals would be reasonable IMO, and this takes care of
the
concern
that enforced public goals are a barrier to initial
beeminding.
If you do
this, consider not displaying mystery goals in people’s
galleries.

Have you thought about offering free trials of premium
plans?

On Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:52:02 PM UTC-4, Daniel Reeves
wrote:

This is super valuable feedback! Let me quote ourselves
from

blog.beeminder.com/premium (under “No Carrots For You”):

Seriously, we are all about the stick. We do not intend to
hold
important features as dangling carrots. Premium plans are
still
an
experiment but we’re committed to keeping the non-premium
Beeminder a
highly functional tool for maximizing the awesomeness of
humans
prone
to procrastination and other forms of akrasia. In fact, the
only
things that we’re going to charge for are:

  1. Features that directly thwart our revenue model, i.e.,
    unlimited
    freebees and free short-circuiting (or in the future:
    choosing
    the
    beneficiary of your commitment contract [1])
  2. Things that may confuse newbees (we’re not sure yet
    whether
    customizable retroratcheting and auto-ratcheting fall in
    this

category)
3. Goodies that are incidental to the process of
beeminding,

like fitness
tips
4. Things that cost us money to provide (we may make the
SMS

bot
a
premium feature for this reason)

I hope I didn’t overcommit us with that. I no longer think
that
"the
free version of Beeminder must be a fully functional
anti-akrasia
tool" is an important principle. I might like the idea that
anyone
who’s at all serious about Beeminder should be premium,
which

is
obviously not the case now. In any case, here’s a list of
possible
current features to make premium:

  1. SMS bot (HT dyang)
  2. Retroratchet
  3. Take A Break
  4. fancy data nerd features like turquoise swath and moving
    average
    line (HT Paul Fenwick)
  5. private graphs
  6. beeminder.com/widgets
  7. weaselproofing
  8. no-mercy recommit
  9. auto-quit
  10. fine print
  11. supporters
  12. panic threshold
  13. goal unit rescaling

And here are potential future premium features:

  1. choose a beneficiary or at least charity percentage
  2. zeno SMS (could also think about international SMS,
    which

costs
more and has to be set up for each country in twilio)
16. super exclusive google group (maybe akratics anonymous
could
become that after moving to discourse?)
17. expose more advanced settings
18. weasel-immunity (opposite of weaselproofing, where you
can
self-service cancel charges and undo recommit)
19. expose more advanced settings
20. profile badges? (HT dyang)
21. early access to new features? (HT dyang)

[1] http://blog.beeminder.com/premium/#BEN

On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 12:48 PM, David MacIver
da...@drmaciver.com
wrote:

On 10 July 2014 21:36, Daniel Reeves <
dre...@beeminder.com>

wrote:

One more item for consideration: What if we added a
Fuzzy

Buzzy plan
at $2/mo (less than 7 cents a day!) with the only perk
being
the warm
fuzzy feeling of supporting Beeminder (maybe also tips
of

the
day)?

So one problem I think is that honestly the premium plans
all
mostly
feel
like this anyway.

You’ve built a really good service that I like a lot…
the

problem is
that
basically all the things I like are present in the free
plan,
and
everything
added by the premium plans is pretty uninteresting on top
of
that.

(OTOH you’ve reminded me that I do like the service
enough

to
support
it
more than the measly $5/month I was paying, so I’ve
upgraded
my account
anyway)

Obviously this is massive backseat driving and you should
feel
free to
ignore everything I say, especially as I have literally
no

idea what
your
user patterns look like, but I rather feel like you might
be
better off
removing functionality from the free plan into the bee
lite

plan than
raising the prices on the premium ones.


You received this message because you are subscribed to
the

Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
from
it, send
an
email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts ==
http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
it,
send an
email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google

Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
it,

send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic
in

the
Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/akratics/QnzWuaM441M/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email
to

akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send
an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send
an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


What’s in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability
to
see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that
you can
make it more. (Alan J. Perlis)


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send

an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send

an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


What’s in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability
to

see
the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you
can

make
it more. (Alan J. Perlis)


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups

“Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an

email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


#44

I hear you that being a Beeminder user is easily a point pride. But to be
the “biggest” derailer? Color me skeptical.

This could be a seasonal contest. The Biggest Loser, Beeminder Edition.
Obviously opt-in, and only in good fun. I’m terribly curious to see what
effect something like this would have on the participants. Would
participants sign up for more Beeminds to improve their odds? Would they
purposefully derail? Or the opposite?

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 3:06 AM, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

Huh. Typical mind fallacy on my part I guess. I’ve so far found even a $5
pledge sufficient to stop me derailing. I guess it’s probably a good thing
most of your users don’t.
On 16 Jul 2014 09:04, “Daniel Reeves” dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Ha, well, it’s not necessarily (or even typically) shameful! The
people who get lots of kicks in the pants (stings, we should say) are
the ones getting massive value out of Beeminder. We have people who
average hundreds of dollars a month of paid pledges and consider it
easily worth that much. (But yes to the privacy point.)

Related: https://trello.com/c/XAJnQtMD/40-embarrassed-to-be-minded

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:49 PM, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com
wrote:

Heh. Actually… there is one metric that it’s just occurred to me
would be
an interesting thing to add as a ranking, but you probably shouldn’t do
it
because it will hurt your bottom line!

You could add a “hall of shame” ranking for total amount of pledges
paid.

On 16 July 2014 06:30, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Brian, thanks for this idea, even though I’m tentatively siding with
David and Jeff. We’re being super slow on social features because
Bethany and I mostly hate that stuff. :slight_smile: We finally added the
Supporters feature a while back though –
blog.beeminder.com/supporters – and next we’ll probably at least add
an easy way to share progress on facebook or something. After we have
basic stuff like that in place we’ll revisit ideas like leaderboards.
Oh, group goals is another thing that we’re tempted to add sooner
rather than later. (Just a dirt simple version where multiple people
can add datapoints to a single graph and they all get charged if it
derails.) We’d love to get a sense of how many people are clamoring
for that. Upvoting and adding thoughts uservoice would be a good way
to do that:

http://beeminder.uservoice.com/forums/3011-general/suggestions/2528624-group-goals-on-user-page-by-user-defined-categorie

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Jeff Alexander
analyticphilosophy@gmail.com wrote:

I agree with David MacIver. My suggestion of a metric should not be
taken as
an endorsement of the existence of such metrics.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 4:11 PM, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com
wrote:

I’m not super keen on the idea of rankings. The problem is that
beeminder
is only really useful relative to how hard it is for you to stick to
the
goals on your own. If you make a game of it then it just provides
incentives
to “cheat”. e.g. if you were to use days since derail as a metric of
"success" you’d just be providing people who cared about their
social

ranking with an incentive against harder goals.

(I mean, obviously to a certain degree, the pledges themselves
already

count as that, but it feels like there’s something fundamentally
different
here)

On 15 July 2014 21:53, Jeff Alexander <analyticphilosophy@gmail.com

wrote:

days_since_derail, maybe scaled against total number of beeminded
goals?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Brian Ball ideabrian@gmail.com
wrote:

Right. To rank people, you’d have to have rankings for an
activity.

Steps taken with FitBit. Hours slept with Zeo? Number of YouTube
followers? BMI?

Rather than having the whole social rank concept be overwhelming

  • we

could certainly start with a single, trackable thing that most
people

can
engage with (walking, writing, tweeting).

We won’t all care about all the trackables - so there should be
points
that could accumulate to an overall rank. Maybe somebody is #1 in
steps per
day - but they don’t BeeMind anything else - so they only get 1000
points
for that category. If they want more points (to rank in the global
distrubition) they would have to track more things (thus
encouraging

more
use).

Ideas?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, David Ernst david@dsernst.com
wrote:

Interesting. What’s the measure for ranking?

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Brian Ball <ideabrian@gmail.com

wrote:

Re: Social Status

I’m not good at BeeMinding. I don’t know what. I’m akratic. Am I
apathetic? Am I just not conditioned to respond appropriately?

However, I can think of a way that would be fun for me to
participate.

  1. Give BeeMinding a social status and rank.

If I see I’m 10,203 out of 10,300 - well, I can see I’ve got
10,000+
people I can “learn” from. That ability to connect and learn
with

people
that are just a few steps ahead of me would be invaluable.

It would give me motivation, social interaction, and data. Also,
the
nature of competition speaks to our lizard brain. We want to win
the
’battle’ for survival and so it helps heighten our ‘focus’
(which

is
probably my biggest challenge with all this.)

So, speak to my lizard brain directly - and you can have all my
money.

-Brian

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 2:15 PM, David Ernst david@ernsts.us
wrote:

Hear you on the point that offering credit could soften the
stingy-ness of derailments. BUT what does that lead to? Maybe
it

takes a $10
pledge to offer the same sting as $5 now. Thanks to
http://blog.beeminder.com/exponential/ &
http://blog.beeminder.com/nwo/
that’s just one derailment away :slight_smile:

The automatically increasing nature of pledges would still
adjust

to
Most Effective Sting.

And in the process they get more opportunity to upgrade and
y’all

get
more return for all your hard work.

On Monday, July 14, 2014 4:24:31 PM UTC-4, Daniel Reeves wrote:

Alex and David E, thank you so much for this! Brilliant ideas
here.
This is going to hugely helpful as we put more love into
premium

plans. I too am curious about others’ thoughts on the idea of
counting
pledges as credits toward premium. I actually mentioned that
possibility to Bethany the other day (I’m not sure who first
had

the
idea but it’s been kicking around a long time – probably
originated
on this list) and she recoiled in horror. It is dangerous
because

it
softens the stingy-ness of derailments.

I agree about TagTime. Note that it’s open-source –
github.com/dreeves/TagTime – so we’d love to entice you to
help

us
give it the love it desperately needs. :slight_smile:

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 3:54 AM, David Ernst <da...@ernsts.us

wrote:

Hi all,

I was going to link to Patio11’s beloved

https://training.kalzumeus.com/newsletters/archive/saas_pricing.

Glad you
guys are already thinking along those lines.

Reviewing Patrick’s post again, and looking at the
plans/pricing
as they are
now, I can’t help but notice a major gap: It’s unclear to me
what
"Bee
Lite", “Plan B”, “Beemium”, and “Beekeeper” translate to.
Seriously, I’m
baffled.

Patrick’s over there trying to make the point: Segment your
customers! Who
are they and how do they get value from you? What did they
come

to
you for
and what do they want??

And all I see from these plans is Plan A, B, C, & D. So
they’re

ordered,
sure, but who are they for? I certainly don’t know which of
these
categories
I fit into. In the current scheme or the new one you
propose.

And note,
I’ve been a user for months, & read nearly all your blog
posts,

discussions
here, FAQs, etc, and still this leaves me confused.

Just throwing this out there, I would imagine segmentation
more

along the
lines of:

New Bee: “Dip your toes into world of Beeminder”. (No
subscription
cost)

The core Beeminder experience. The free plan that new users
start
off on.
Basic commitment pledges, a few private goals, & less (than
now,
even)
things to distract one with.

Worker Bee: “Be even more productive, with less work”.
($10/mo?
$20? idk,
test it!)

“Pro” things like unlimited private Beeminds, custom goals,
auto-ratcheting,
configurable ratcheting, SMS integration, weaselproofing,
tips

of
the day.

Super Bee: “All the things.” ($35/mo? Dunno)

The fun toys for the true lover of quantified-self. Free
short-circuiting,
unlimited free-bees (for more experimentation), change goal
URLs,
"fancy
data nerd features like turquoise swath and moving average
line

(HT Paul
Fenwick) ", “expose more advanced settings”, early access to
test
out new
features.

What you currently list as Beekeeper, separate out into a
more

distinct
product. Don’t confuse it with the plans. Because it’s not
really
the same,
right? A human beeing (ha). Fundamentally different from
any of

the plans.
Maybe joining the Beekeeper program could include a 30-day
trial
of Super
Bee as an additional perk, and then half price on all plans
after
that. But
I would try to separate it otherwise from the subscription
plans.
Because
you know, one is increased software options, and one is a
person
that gives
their time to you. And I’m not sure the two are so directly
related. E.g. I
could see more Free Plan users buying coaching, even though
they
don’t need
more software features, but the current ascending list
confuses

them away.

Also, I would make it clearer that you’re getting a
Beekeeper.

The
way it’s
currently written on the Premium Plans page suggests the
user

is
the
Beekeeper. I think it would be more compelling to say “A
beekeeper
to take
care of you”. Maybe this is just semantics, yet right now I
default to
reading the listing not as "want someone to look after you?“
but
"want to
make bees your occupation?”. Subconsciously, it feels like
more

work.

On a different note, I’m very curious how these premium
plans

intersect with
pledge revenue. My hunch is that signing up for premium
would

cause a user
to Beemind more things (thank you sunk cost fallacy). Thus
more

pledge’d
money at stake, and (thus?) more pledged revenue. Does
raising

the
price of
these plans cause less people to take their relationship to
the

next stage,
and then also hurt pledge revenue? In other words, does
optimizing
subscription revenue come at a cost of pledge revenue? Of
course,
I’m making
too many uninformed assumptions…

Thinking more on this theme, what about using money
delivered

from
pledges
as credit to spend on the premium plans? Thus avoiding the
potential
zero-sum dilemma above. And the user feels a bit less bad
financially when
they fall off the road, because they can still “use” those
credits
towards
premium. Maybe they’ll put more money on the line, because
"hey,
if I fail,
then at least I can still use it for a premium
subscription!"

And
then more
New Bees convert to premium status, great! And all the
while,

Beeminder Inc
doesn’t lose revenue from this arrangement because the money
still
gets
charged, and for the most part those premium features have
trivial
marginal
cost. It’s just letting the pledged money go farther (get
double
"spent").
Is this too radical? Maybe. Would love to hear others’
opinions

on
it.

One last thing. Without changing the subject too much, if
we’re

still
talking about finding more sources of revenue, I would
strongly

suggest
giving TagTime some love. It seems like there is a
seriously

great product
there. And such a perfect complement to what Beeminder
already

offers. Why
not bring it into the family more tightly? It clear from
reading
your blogs
etc that you guys make such heavy usage of it, but I wonder
how

many users
do too? I don’t know! I haven’t even ever been able to get
it

working
(Windows & iOS – ugh, I know). Yet it seems to hold such
promise.
If it was
more of a 1-click install (“Beeminder Desktop”), and
offered a

no-bullshit
GUI decoupled from cmd, it could be much more accessible for
the
average
Beeminder. And seriously improve the value of the whole
package

for the
user.

— My 02¢. Hope this helps.

On Saturday, July 12, 2014 2:43:26 PM UTC-4, Alex Schell
wrote:

In my view you could bundle retroratchet, configurable
retroratchet, and
auto-trimming of safety buffer at the same premium level,
or

maybe just move
retroratchet to Bee Lite. These all feel like advanced
tools

that
are nice
to have but aren’t essential to beeminding. (My guess is
that

retroratchet
is relatively rarely used to non-premium users, and that
the

advanced
retroratchet features wouldn’t be used much by the
non-premium

user
population even if they could use them.)

Re: private graphs, why not treat these like you do
freebees?

2-4
free
secret goals would be reasonable IMO, and this takes care
of

the
concern
that enforced public goals are a barrier to initial
beeminding.
If you do
this, consider not displaying mystery goals in people’s
galleries.

Have you thought about offering free trials of premium
plans?

On Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:52:02 PM UTC-4, Daniel Reeves
wrote:

This is super valuable feedback! Let me quote ourselves
from

blog.beeminder.com/premium (under “No Carrots For You”):

Seriously, we are all about the stick. We do not intend to
hold
important features as dangling carrots. Premium plans are
still
an
experiment but we’re committed to keeping the non-premium
Beeminder a
highly functional tool for maximizing the awesomeness of
humans
prone
to procrastination and other forms of akrasia. In fact,
the

only
things that we’re going to charge for are:

  1. Features that directly thwart our revenue model, i.e.,
    unlimited
    freebees and free short-circuiting (or in the future:
    choosing
    the
    beneficiary of your commitment contract [1])
  2. Things that may confuse newbees (we’re not sure yet
    whether
    customizable retroratcheting and auto-ratcheting fall in
    this

category)
3. Goodies that are incidental to the process of
beeminding,

like fitness
tips
4. Things that cost us money to provide (we may make the
SMS

bot
a
premium feature for this reason)

I hope I didn’t overcommit us with that. I no longer think
that
"the
free version of Beeminder must be a fully functional
anti-akrasia
tool" is an important principle. I might like the idea
that

anyone
who’s at all serious about Beeminder should be premium,
which

is
obviously not the case now. In any case, here’s a list of
possible
current features to make premium:

  1. SMS bot (HT dyang)
  2. Retroratchet
  3. Take A Break
  4. fancy data nerd features like turquoise swath and
    moving

average
line (HT Paul Fenwick)
5. private graphs
6. beeminder.com/widgets
7. weaselproofing
8. no-mercy recommit
9. auto-quit
10. fine print
11. supporters
12. panic threshold
13. goal unit rescaling

And here are potential future premium features:

  1. choose a beneficiary or at least charity percentage
  2. zeno SMS (could also think about international SMS,
    which

costs
more and has to be set up for each country in twilio)
16. super exclusive google group (maybe akratics anonymous
could
become that after moving to discourse?)
17. expose more advanced settings
18. weasel-immunity (opposite of weaselproofing, where you
can
self-service cancel charges and undo recommit)
19. expose more advanced settings
20. profile badges? (HT dyang)
21. early access to new features? (HT dyang)

[1] http://blog.beeminder.com/premium/#BEN

On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 12:48 PM, David MacIver
da...@drmaciver.com
wrote:

On 10 July 2014 21:36, Daniel Reeves <
dre...@beeminder.com>

wrote:

One more item for consideration: What if we added a
Fuzzy

Buzzy plan
at $2/mo (less than 7 cents a day!) with the only perk
being
the warm
fuzzy feeling of supporting Beeminder (maybe also tips
of

the
day)?

So one problem I think is that honestly the premium
plans

all
mostly
feel
like this anyway.

You’ve built a really good service that I like a lot…
the

problem is
that
basically all the things I like are present in the free
plan,
and
everything
added by the premium plans is pretty uninteresting on
top

of
that.

(OTOH you’ve reminded me that I do like the service
enough

to
support
it
more than the measly $5/month I was paying, so I’ve
upgraded
my account
anyway)

Obviously this is massive backseat driving and you
should

feel
free to
ignore everything I say, especially as I have literally
no

idea what
your
user patterns look like, but I rather feel like you
might

be
better off
removing functionality from the free plan into the bee
lite

plan than
raising the prices on the premium ones.


You received this message because you are subscribed to
the

Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
from
it, send
an
email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts ==
http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
from

it,
send an
email to akratics+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google

Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
it,

send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic
in

the
Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/akratics/QnzWuaM441M/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an
email to

akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google

Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send
an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send
an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


What’s in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the
ability

to
see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that
you can
make it more. (Alan J. Perlis)


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send

an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send

an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


What’s in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability
to

see
the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you
can

make
it more. (Alan J. Perlis)


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send

an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups

“Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an

email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/akratics/QnzWuaM441M/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


#45

Hi,
I find beeminder is actually one of the better data-tracking apps on
android, even without the antiakratic element. Perhaps because I’m used to
it already.
Like, I want to use it to collect data on things I don’t have an akratic
problem with.
Obviously this doesn’t give you any money, but you have most of the tech
ready for it already, just needs a few tweaks. So this would be an ideal
Premium feature.
Seems fair, "either pay us by going off the rails on your akratic goals
or pay us for fancy graphs and data tracking on other things you want to
monitor"
D

On Thursday, 10 July 2014 08:05:28 UTC+1, Daniel Reeves wrote:

Hi fellow Akratics,

Guess what! We want to increase the prices for the Beeminder premium
plans. Don’t worry, we’ll grandfather existing premium people
(hurry!). It’s been over a year since we first introduced them and a
whole bunch more yumminess has been added (to premium plans, and
Beeminder in general). [1] You all seem to like Beeminder so much that
we thought we’d ask for your help in deciding how to do this.

Currently the premium plans are like this (or look at
beeminder.com/premium if you’re signed in to Beeminder):

Bee Lite ($5/mo): custom goals, configurable retrorratchet, tips of the
day
Plan Bee ($10/mo): unlimited freebees, autoratchet
Beemium ($25/mo): free shortcircuiting, access to our devel chatroom
(realtime support)
Beekeeper ($200/mo): your own actual human

And here’s what we’re thinking of announcing:

Bee Lite: $8/mo
Plan Bee: $16/mo
Beemium: $32/mo
Beekeeper: $256/mo

What do you think?

Thanks everyone!
Danny and Bethany and the rest of the Bee Team

[1] Since we introduced premium plans Beeminder in general got: Zeno
polling, new integrations (Duolingo, Jawbone, Draft, Code School),
much of the Android awesomeness, new world order!
(precommit-to-recommit), pessimistic presumptive reports, scheduled
breaks, supporters, and literally hundreds of small improvements.

Bee Lite in particular got configurable retroratchet a while back,
which just got better this weekend with the ability to retroratchet to
any amount of safety buffer including making today an eep day.

Plan Bee just got the ability to change your URLs (which we have mixed
feelings about since we hate broken links, but for Plan Bee people,
ok).

And Beemium is now the only way to shortcircuit the pledge schedule
(we got rid of the ability to pay to shortcircuit a while ago). We’re
also about to add a default minimum pledge in account settings for
Beemium people, since a big draw of Beemium is making sure you always
have motivating amounts pledged.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


#46

Oh, hey, that already is a premium feature! Plan Bee lets you keep all
your goals at $0 pledged (turn off “auto-increase” to make sure they
always stay at $0). And, btw, anyone still reading this thread has
certainly earned a discount. Just email me or support and we’ll get
you the old premium prices.

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 1:53 AM, indigovervet@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,
I find beeminder is actually one of the better data-tracking apps on
android, even without the antiakratic element. Perhaps because I’m used to
it already.
Like, I want to use it to collect data on things I don’t have an akratic
problem with.
Obviously this doesn’t give you any money, but you have most of the tech
ready for it already, just needs a few tweaks. So this would be an ideal
Premium feature.
Seems fair, "either pay us by going off the rails on your akratic goals or
pay us for fancy graphs and data tracking on other things you want to
monitor"
D

On Thursday, 10 July 2014 08:05:28 UTC+1, Daniel Reeves wrote:

Hi fellow Akratics,

Guess what! We want to increase the prices for the Beeminder premium
plans. Don’t worry, we’ll grandfather existing premium people
(hurry!). It’s been over a year since we first introduced them and a
whole bunch more yumminess has been added (to premium plans, and
Beeminder in general). [1] You all seem to like Beeminder so much that
we thought we’d ask for your help in deciding how to do this.

Currently the premium plans are like this (or look at
beeminder.com/premium if you’re signed in to Beeminder):

Bee Lite ($5/mo): custom goals, configurable retrorratchet, tips of the
day
Plan Bee ($10/mo): unlimited freebees, autoratchet
Beemium ($25/mo): free shortcircuiting, access to our devel chatroom
(realtime support)
Beekeeper ($200/mo): your own actual human

And here’s what we’re thinking of announcing:

Bee Lite: $8/mo
Plan Bee: $16/mo
Beemium: $32/mo
Beekeeper: $256/mo

What do you think?

Thanks everyone!
Danny and Bethany and the rest of the Bee Team

[1] Since we introduced premium plans Beeminder in general got: Zeno
polling, new integrations (Duolingo, Jawbone, Draft, Code School),
much of the Android awesomeness, new world order!
(precommit-to-recommit), pessimistic presumptive reports, scheduled
breaks, supporters, and literally hundreds of small improvements.

Bee Lite in particular got configurable retroratchet a while back,
which just got better this weekend with the ability to retroratchet to
any amount of safety buffer including making today an eep day.

Plan Bee just got the ability to change your URLs (which we have mixed
feelings about since we hate broken links, but for Plan Bee people,
ok).

And Beemium is now the only way to shortcircuit the pledge schedule
(we got rid of the ability to pay to shortcircuit a while ago). We’re
also about to add a default minimum pledge in account settings for
Beemium people, since a big draw of Beemium is making sure you always
have motivating amounts pledged.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


#47

On Thursday, July 10, 2014 9:36:24 PM UTC+2, Daniel Reeves wrote:

One more item for consideration: What if we added a Fuzzy Buzzy plan
at $2/mo (less than 7 cents a day!) with the only perk being the warm
fuzzy feeling of supporting Beeminder (maybe also tips of the day)?

I would sign up for a Fuzzy Buzzy plan at $2/mo.

At the moment I feel like I am cheating because I use Beeminder for “toy
goals” without any real risk of derailing.
I like the graphs that I get from beeminder so I use them for keeping track
of my weight (https://www.beeminder.com/styrke/goals/weight) and how much I
read. (https://www.beeminder.com/styrke/goals/reading)
As you can see I’m not in danger of derailing from any of them any time
soon, but I would still like to pay for them.

On a topic slightly related to privacy, I love looking at other people’s
public goals and graphs to see how they use Beeminder. I would love it if
Beeminder had some kind of show-and-tell page where people could contribute
their goals to be shown to the world. There could be a simple checkbox in
the settings that would add the goal to the public listing.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


#48

On a topic slightly related to privacy, I love looking at other people’s
public goals and graphs to see how they use Beeminder. I would love it if
Beeminder had some kind of show-and-tell page where people could contribute
their goals to be shown to the world. There could be a simple checkbox in
the settings that would add the goal to the public listing.

Your wish is our command:

(We actually had that all along but it wasn’t exposed; now it is!)

See also: http://showcase.beneills.com/


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


#49

Howdy,

I’m a bit late to the party here but I thought I’d weigh in. I joined
Beeminder on June 14. I fell in love immediately. I have found the
technology extremely compelling and it is having a huge positive impact on
my life. I am minding 11 goals and I’m using it all the time! I’ve also
been active on the Uservoice Feedback forum.

I’ve derailed two goals for a total of $10 so I suppose I’m a paying
customer (haha!). I also just had a support conversation with Bethany about
a Do Less goal of mine that should have derailed but didn’t due to a quirk
in the way those goals are calculated.

All that said, I can’t see myself ever becoming a Premium user. This is for
two reasons, 1) the types of features offered and 2) paying monthly for a
service that is otherwise 100% event driven.

Starting with #1, the types of Premium features seem to fall into one of
three categories:
A) Features you could get for free by entering fake data.
B) Features that work around quirks or bugs in the website.
C) Non-technical features.

By A) I mean things like configurable retroratchet, trimming safety buffer,
and free short-circuiting. Entering fake data feels like a cardinal sin.
Beeminder’s non-premium business model is entirely predicated on the hope
that some people care about Quantified Self enough to not lie about their
data to avoid derailing. I’m one of those people, but these features being
dangled in my face feel like Beeminder is tempting me into cheating. It
feels backwards from how it ought to be.

By B) I mean things like changing goal URLs. I have a lot of goals whose
URLs I would change because I realized too late that the New Goal page
drops all the text after the first space. I’m not going to pay $16/month to
correct that. If Take a Break or Retroratchet became Premium (per your July
10 post) I would categorize them here, because they make the Road Dial less
clunky. (I would also have never joined Beeminder in the first place had
those been premium features at the time, but that’s an aside.)

By C) I mean things like fitness tips or the real-time support. These
actually might be a cool deal, but they’re bundled in with all the A) and
B) type stuff.

I’m not sure exactly how to phrase #2, but as a non-premium user I find it
really attractive that Beeminder’s cost to me is entirely based on things
that I do or don’t do. If I mind all my goals, I pay nothing. If I skip my
workout today, there goes $10. I am just not sure that I would ever be
comfortable with a monthly fee for features that are already implemented
and that I don’t want to use all the time. Today I’d like to rename some of
my goal URLs. Tomorrow I’m not going to want to, because I just did.

All of this said, I would be willing to pay Beeminder money outside of
pledges. I would be willing to pay money towards implementing new Beeminder
features (like the backer.app.net campaign for GTBee for Android) if and
only if they then become free. I’d love to see a menu of stuff you folks
might work on and throw cash at it. I might also be willing to pay to
enable or use specific advanced features, like a one-time fee to enable
automatic safety buffer trimming for a particular goal forever.

I know pricing is hard and I certainly am not an expert. But I thought I
would throw you my two cents.

Thanks,
Sean

On Friday, July 18, 2014 4:39:02 PM UTC-7, Daniel Reeves wrote:

On a topic slightly related to privacy, I love looking at other people’s
public goals and graphs to see how they use Beeminder. I would love it
if
Beeminder had some kind of show-and-tell page where people could
contribute
their goals to be shown to the world. There could be a simple checkbox
in
the settings that would add the goal to the public listing.

Your wish is our command:

https://twitter.com/beemuvi/status/490278986119774208

(We actually had that all along but it wasn’t exposed; now it is!)

See also: http://showcase.beneills.com/


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


#50

Oops one more note. I listed “free short-circuiting” under category A), but
what I meant was that if I want to jump a goal to $30, I can get there by
faking two derails. It’s not free, but the $15 one-time is much more
attractive than $32 every month.

On Sunday, July 20, 2014 4:34:50 PM UTC-7, Sean Fellows wrote:

Howdy,

I’m a bit late to the party here but I thought I’d weigh in. I joined
Beeminder on June 14. I fell in love immediately. I have found the
technology extremely compelling and it is having a huge positive impact on
my life. I am minding 11 goals and I’m using it all the time! I’ve also
been active on the Uservoice Feedback forum.

I’ve derailed two goals for a total of $10 so I suppose I’m a paying
customer (haha!). I also just had a support conversation with Bethany about
a Do Less goal of mine that should have derailed but didn’t due to a quirk
in the way those goals are calculated.

All that said, I can’t see myself ever becoming a Premium user. This is
for two reasons, 1) the types of features offered and 2) paying monthly for
a service that is otherwise 100% event driven.

Starting with #1, the types of Premium features seem to fall into one of
three categories:
A) Features you could get for free by entering fake data.
B) Features that work around quirks or bugs in the website.
C) Non-technical features.

By A) I mean things like configurable retroratchet, trimming safety
buffer, and free short-circuiting. Entering fake data feels like a cardinal
sin. Beeminder’s non-premium business model is entirely predicated on the
hope that some people care about Quantified Self enough to not lie about
their data to avoid derailing. I’m one of those people, but these features
being dangled in my face feel like Beeminder is tempting me into cheating.
It feels backwards from how it ought to be.

By B) I mean things like changing goal URLs. I have a lot of goals whose
URLs I would change because I realized too late that the New Goal page
drops all the text after the first space. I’m not going to pay $16/month to
correct that. If Take a Break or Retroratchet became Premium (per your July
10 post) I would categorize them here, because they make the Road Dial less
clunky. (I would also have never joined Beeminder in the first place had
those been premium features at the time, but that’s an aside.)

By C) I mean things like fitness tips or the real-time support. These
actually might be a cool deal, but they’re bundled in with all the A) and
B) type stuff.

I’m not sure exactly how to phrase #2, but as a non-premium user I find it
really attractive that Beeminder’s cost to me is entirely based on things
that I do or don’t do. If I mind all my goals, I pay nothing. If I skip my
workout today, there goes $10. I am just not sure that I would ever be
comfortable with a monthly fee for features that are already implemented
and that I don’t want to use all the time. Today I’d like to rename some of
my goal URLs. Tomorrow I’m not going to want to, because I just did.

All of this said, I would be willing to pay Beeminder money outside of
pledges. I would be willing to pay money towards implementing new Beeminder
features (like the backer.app.net campaign for GTBee for Android) if and
only if they then become free. I’d love to see a menu of stuff you folks
might work on and throw cash at it. I might also be willing to pay to
enable or use specific advanced features, like a one-time fee to enable
automatic safety buffer trimming for a particular goal forever.

I know pricing is hard and I certainly am not an expert. But I thought I
would throw you my two cents.

Thanks,
Sean

On Friday, July 18, 2014 4:39:02 PM UTC-7, Daniel Reeves wrote:

On a topic slightly related to privacy, I love looking at other
people’s
public goals and graphs to see how they use Beeminder. I would love it
if
Beeminder had some kind of show-and-tell page where people could
contribute
their goals to be shown to the world. There could be a simple checkbox
in
the settings that would add the goal to the public listing.

Your wish is our command:

https://twitter.com/beemuvi/status/490278986119774208

(We actually had that all along but it wasn’t exposed; now it is!)

See also: http://showcase.beneills.com/


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


#51

Excellent feedback, Sean! Here’s one loophole that we don’t mind if
people want to exploit: Pay $32 once for Beemium, shortcircuit your
pledges to your heart’s delight, then immediately cancel Beemium.

On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Sean Fellows oaks64@gmail.com wrote:

Oops one more note. I listed “free short-circuiting” under category A), but
what I meant was that if I want to jump a goal to $30, I can get there by
faking two derails. It’s not free, but the $15 one-time is much more
attractive than $32 every month.

On Sunday, July 20, 2014 4:34:50 PM UTC-7, Sean Fellows wrote:

Howdy,

I’m a bit late to the party here but I thought I’d weigh in. I joined
Beeminder on June 14. I fell in love immediately. I have found the
technology extremely compelling and it is having a huge positive impact on
my life. I am minding 11 goals and I’m using it all the time! I’ve also been
active on the Uservoice Feedback forum.

I’ve derailed two goals for a total of $10 so I suppose I’m a paying
customer (haha!). I also just had a support conversation with Bethany about
a Do Less goal of mine that should have derailed but didn’t due to a quirk
in the way those goals are calculated.

All that said, I can’t see myself ever becoming a Premium user. This is
for two reasons, 1) the types of features offered and 2) paying monthly for
a service that is otherwise 100% event driven.

Starting with #1, the types of Premium features seem to fall into one of
three categories:
A) Features you could get for free by entering fake data.
B) Features that work around quirks or bugs in the website.
C) Non-technical features.

By A) I mean things like configurable retroratchet, trimming safety
buffer, and free short-circuiting. Entering fake data feels like a cardinal
sin. Beeminder’s non-premium business model is entirely predicated on the
hope that some people care about Quantified Self enough to not lie about
their data to avoid derailing. I’m one of those people, but these features
being dangled in my face feel like Beeminder is tempting me into cheating.
It feels backwards from how it ought to be.

By B) I mean things like changing goal URLs. I have a lot of goals whose
URLs I would change because I realized too late that the New Goal page drops
all the text after the first space. I’m not going to pay $16/month to
correct that. If Take a Break or Retroratchet became Premium (per your July
10 post) I would categorize them here, because they make the Road Dial less
clunky. (I would also have never joined Beeminder in the first place had
those been premium features at the time, but that’s an aside.)

By C) I mean things like fitness tips or the real-time support. These
actually might be a cool deal, but they’re bundled in with all the A) and B)
type stuff.

I’m not sure exactly how to phrase #2, but as a non-premium user I find it
really attractive that Beeminder’s cost to me is entirely based on things
that I do or don’t do. If I mind all my goals, I pay nothing. If I skip my
workout today, there goes $10. I am just not sure that I would ever be
comfortable with a monthly fee for features that are already implemented and
that I don’t want to use all the time. Today I’d like to rename some of my
goal URLs. Tomorrow I’m not going to want to, because I just did.

All of this said, I would be willing to pay Beeminder money outside of
pledges. I would be willing to pay money towards implementing new Beeminder
features (like the backer.app.net campaign for GTBee for Android) if and
only if they then become free. I’d love to see a menu of stuff you folks
might work on and throw cash at it. I might also be willing to pay to enable
or use specific advanced features, like a one-time fee to enable automatic
safety buffer trimming for a particular goal forever.

I know pricing is hard and I certainly am not an expert. But I thought I
would throw you my two cents.

Thanks,
Sean

On Friday, July 18, 2014 4:39:02 PM UTC-7, Daniel Reeves wrote:

On a topic slightly related to privacy, I love looking at other
people’s
public goals and graphs to see how they use Beeminder. I would love it
if
Beeminder had some kind of show-and-tell page where people could
contribute
their goals to be shown to the world. There could be a simple checkbox
in
the settings that would add the goal to the public listing.

Your wish is our command:

https://twitter.com/beemuvi/status/490278986119774208

(We actually had that all along but it wasn’t exposed; now it is!)

See also: http://showcase.beneills.com/


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


#52

Thanks for the quick reply. If you actually managed to read all that you
deserve some kind of award. Thanks for the consideration. :slight_smile:

On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 7:50 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Excellent feedback, Sean! Here’s one loophole that we don’t mind if
people want to exploit: Pay $32 once for Beemium, shortcircuit your
pledges to your heart’s delight, then immediately cancel Beemium.

On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Sean Fellows oaks64@gmail.com wrote:

Oops one more note. I listed “free short-circuiting” under category A),
but
what I meant was that if I want to jump a goal to $30, I can get there by
faking two derails. It’s not free, but the $15 one-time is much more
attractive than $32 every month.

On Sunday, July 20, 2014 4:34:50 PM UTC-7, Sean Fellows wrote:

Howdy,

I’m a bit late to the party here but I thought I’d weigh in. I joined
Beeminder on June 14. I fell in love immediately. I have found the
technology extremely compelling and it is having a huge positive impact
on

my life. I am minding 11 goals and I’m using it all the time! I’ve also
been

active on the Uservoice Feedback forum.

I’ve derailed two goals for a total of $10 so I suppose I’m a paying
customer (haha!). I also just had a support conversation with Bethany
about

a Do Less goal of mine that should have derailed but didn’t due to a
quirk

in the way those goals are calculated.

All that said, I can’t see myself ever becoming a Premium user. This is
for two reasons, 1) the types of features offered and 2) paying monthly
for

a service that is otherwise 100% event driven.

Starting with #1, the types of Premium features seem to fall into one of
three categories:
A) Features you could get for free by entering fake data.
B) Features that work around quirks or bugs in the website.
C) Non-technical features.

By A) I mean things like configurable retroratchet, trimming safety
buffer, and free short-circuiting. Entering fake data feels like a
cardinal

sin. Beeminder’s non-premium business model is entirely predicated on
the

hope that some people care about Quantified Self enough to not lie about
their data to avoid derailing. I’m one of those people, but these
features

being dangled in my face feel like Beeminder is tempting me into
cheating.

It feels backwards from how it ought to be.

By B) I mean things like changing goal URLs. I have a lot of goals whose
URLs I would change because I realized too late that the New Goal page
drops

all the text after the first space. I’m not going to pay $16/month to
correct that. If Take a Break or Retroratchet became Premium (per your
July

10 post) I would categorize them here, because they make the Road Dial
less

clunky. (I would also have never joined Beeminder in the first place had
those been premium features at the time, but that’s an aside.)

By C) I mean things like fitness tips or the real-time support. These
actually might be a cool deal, but they’re bundled in with all the A)
and B)

type stuff.

I’m not sure exactly how to phrase #2, but as a non-premium user I find
it

really attractive that Beeminder’s cost to me is entirely based on
things

that I do or don’t do. If I mind all my goals, I pay nothing. If I skip
my

workout today, there goes $10. I am just not sure that I would ever be
comfortable with a monthly fee for features that are already
implemented and

that I don’t want to use all the time. Today I’d like to rename some of
my

goal URLs. Tomorrow I’m not going to want to, because I just did.

All of this said, I would be willing to pay Beeminder money outside of
pledges. I would be willing to pay money towards implementing new
Beeminder

features (like the backer.app.net campaign for GTBee for Android) if
and

only if they then become free. I’d love to see a menu of stuff you folks
might work on and throw cash at it. I might also be willing to pay to
enable

or use specific advanced features, like a one-time fee to enable
automatic

safety buffer trimming for a particular goal forever.

I know pricing is hard and I certainly am not an expert. But I thought I
would throw you my two cents.

Thanks,
Sean

On Friday, July 18, 2014 4:39:02 PM UTC-7, Daniel Reeves wrote:

On a topic slightly related to privacy, I love looking at other
people’s
public goals and graphs to see how they use Beeminder. I would love
it

if
Beeminder had some kind of show-and-tell page where people could
contribute
their goals to be shown to the world. There could be a simple
checkbox

in
the settings that would add the goal to the public listing.

Your wish is our command:

https://twitter.com/beemuvi/status/490278986119774208

(We actually had that all along but it wasn’t exposed; now it is!)

See also: http://showcase.beneills.com/


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


#53

Agree with Sean about “B) Features that work around quirks or bugs in the website.”:
I think that you charging for changing URLs for example has nothing to do with combating akrasia, which is what you guys are good at. Actually it creates an incentive for you to not fix the UI in this case, which is unfortunate. (Have also been surprised by the space-hyphen behavior.)

All in all I think the premium features are a bit confusing and expensive. It’s not that Beeminder is not worth a lot because it is. I just already paid a lot through derailing and I think that is a beautiful system.

I know you said that using derailment payments as credits towards premium features removes a bit of the stinginess but so does paying them to a sympathetic company one wants to support. If you really want maximum stinginess you should rather destroy the money or donate them towards an organization with a counter beneficial purpose :wink: !

In all seriousness I am afraid all these different plans distracts you from focusing on creating the best anti akrasia platform. I would prefer just paying with derailments and if that is not possible because most of your users are better at not failing, then one, relatively cheap premium plan with features so nice than it would be obvious for all but the most basic users to sign up. (And then the BeeKeeper of course, but that one is very clear in why it needs to be expensive and what one gets.)

Lots of different plans with more or less random benefits are for companies without focus in my opinion, look at Microsoft and all their Windows versions…

Also, your idea about pushing people to sign up by announcing the price increase may also have the opposite effect in the future by keeping some on free version because they think that for instance 8$ is a bit much where 5$ might have been fine.

Brusk


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.