# beeminder subscriptions **URL:** \ **Category:** uncategorized\ **Created:** [January 28, 2012, 11:16am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361 "2012-01-28T11:16:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dreev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/dreev/32/4311_2.png) [@dreev](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/dreev)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2012, 11:16am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/1 "2012-01-28T11:16:29Z")
Hi Akratics, We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth paying $12/month for Beeminder: 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that tempts you to cheat on your contracts. 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting demoralized and not resetting at all!). 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this stuff for us! 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) Danny and Bethany [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://"Daniel Reeves" Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Rob\_Felty](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/rob_felty/32/678_2.png) [@Rob\_Felty](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Rob_Felty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/2 "2012-01-28T17:18:56Z")
I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces too many complications. Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to put money on the line for your goal at all? I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3. Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would target more like $5 per month. On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com)wrote: > Hi Akratics, > We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following > premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth > paying $12/month for Beeminder: > > 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use > Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] > > 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add > arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon > we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that > tempts you to cheat on your contracts. > > 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that > motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few > initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting > demoralized and not resetting at all!). > > 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this > stuff for us! > > 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t > implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) > > Danny and Bethany > > [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want > Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] > > [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting > pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is > just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation > Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re > paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in > proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Jenkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Jake\_Jenkins](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Jake_Jenkins)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/3 "2012-01-28T18:04:58Z")
My first reaction was $12 a month is way too steep. I think $5 or under is a better target. (0) I like this one. Seems super fair. Almost too fair. Does anyone else do this type of pricing? most businesses rely on people continuing to pay even if they don’t use the service regularly. I am thinking gyms and netflix. This sounds more like a pay per use model (old blockbuster) combined with subscription. Interesting idea. Might create weird behaviors like waiting until a month is over before starting a new beeminder because you don’t want to pay for only 1 weeks worth of use. (1) Seems to be against the basic philosophy of beeminder. I like the strict rules. Keeps it simple. Less mental wiggle room. Every video game that I learned the code for “god mode” become instantly less interesting. (2) I thought you could already do this. Would you take it away from the free service? (3) I already get VIP service for free, and appreciate it. What kind of service will I be getting if I don’t subscribe? (4) I think this is a great idea. I think it perfectly reasonable for Beeminder to take a set fee off the top for processing and then the rest should go wherever the user determines on the front end. Charity, friend, etc. I don’t like percentage charges. Costs the same on your end whether it is 100 or 10,000. One of the reasons people hate brokers and bankers. Everyone I tell about Beeminder says the same thing, “there is no way I am giving them money when I mess up.”. I know you aren’t targeting “everyone” but this is a major obstacle for your business. That being said I would make a donation right now if that was an option on your site. I have been a user for about 3 months. Would I give $36? Seems a little steep… $20 feels about right, but I don’t know if I would want to pay that every quarter. Tough because I like the tool and I would like to continue using it indefinitely. Putting money on the line forces me to calculate the long term cumulative costs. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Felty [robfelty@gmail.com](mailto:robfelty@gmail.com) Sender: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:18:56 To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) Reply-To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces too many complications. Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to put money on the line for your goal at all? I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3. Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would target more like $5 per month. On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com)wrote: > Hi Akratics, > We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following > premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth > paying $12/month for Beeminder: > > 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use > Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] > > 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add > arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon > we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that > tempts you to cheat on your contracts. > > 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that > motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few > initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting > demoralized and not resetting at all!). > > 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this > stuff for us! > > 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t > implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) > > Danny and Bethany > > [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want > Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] > > [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting > pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is > just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation > Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re > paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in > proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![jill](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/jill/32/88_2.png) [@jill](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/jill)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/4 "2012-01-28T18:11:02Z")
Danny, I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some features to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the fact that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly slowed. I would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple (lets say more than 3) goals. I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming akrasia. I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental to beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making less money in the long run. I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only $8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep. I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again, isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances since they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model will make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of course I haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive numbers of subscribers. -Jill On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty [robfelty@gmail.com](mailto:robfelty@gmail.com) wrote: > I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces > too many complications. > > Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to put > money on the line for your goal at all? > > I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3. > Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would target > more like $5 per month. > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com)wrote: > > > Hi Akratics, > > We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following > > premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth > > paying $12/month for Beeminder: > > > > 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use > > Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] > > > > 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add > > arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon > > we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that > > tempts you to cheat on your contracts. > > > > 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that > > motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few > > initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting > > demoralized and not resetting at all!). > > > > 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this > > stuff for us! > > > > 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t > > implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) > > > > Danny and Bethany > > > > [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want > > Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] > > > > [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting > > pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is > > just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation > > Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re > > paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in > > proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! > > > > – > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![dreev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/dreev/32/4311_2.png) [@dreev](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/dreev)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/5 "2012-01-28T22:35:36Z")
Rob, Jake, Jill, thanks so much for these insights! Let’s not get hung up on the price yet. As David Yang just pointed out, it’s possible we should be thinking about _higher_ prices so you’re not tempted to compare with netflix! 🙂 It’s all very relative. Think about plus or minus $12 on your gym membership. If one gym had a much higher probability of getting you to actually go to it, a $12 differential would seem trivial, right? One more defense of high prices: Companies that charge just a few dollars a month are counting on you to think of it as approximately nothing and never think about it, whether you keep using the service or not. (I’m seriously annoyed at the probably $50 per movie I’ve probably effectively paid netflix because I’ve been too damn akratic to ever get around to canceling it, or because I always think that Real Soon Now things will slow down enough for me to relax and watch movies once in a while and make that – admittedly super cheap – subscription worthwhile!) So, yeah, we don’t want to be like that! We want to focus on people for whom Beeminder is, no exaggeration, life-changing. Cf > **[Beeminder](https://www.beeminder.com/testimonials)** > > Goal tracking and commitment contracts But, yes, we want it to continue to stay free for less hardcore users. Like your first attempt is always free and it always stays free as long as you stay on your yellow brick road. Maybe we’ll add limits to how many goals you can create. (More specific responses in separate email.) On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud [veganjill@gmail.com](mailto:veganjill@gmail.com) wrote: > Danny, > > I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be > like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some features > to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I > think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the fact > that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require > subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly slowed. I > would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and > maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple (lets > say more than 3) goals. > > I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming akrasia. > > I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are > already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their > roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental to > beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making less > money in the long run. > > I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only > $8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep. > > I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again, > isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances since > they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model will > make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of course I > haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they > drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive numbers > of subscribers. > > -Jill > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty [robfelty@gmail.com](mailto:robfelty@gmail.com) wrote: > > > I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces > > too many complications. > > > > Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to put > > money on the line for your goal at all? > > > > I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3. > > Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would target > > more like $5 per month. > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Akratics, > > > We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following > > > premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth > > > paying $12/month for Beeminder: > > > > > > 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use > > > Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] > > > > > > 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add > > > arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon > > > we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that > > > tempts you to cheat on your contracts. > > > > > > 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that > > > motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few > > > initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting > > > demoralized and not resetting at all!). > > > > > > 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this > > > stuff for us! > > > > > > 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t > > > implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) > > > > > > Danny and Bethany > > > > > > [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want > > > Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] > > > > > > [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting > > > pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is > > > just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation > > > Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re > > > paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in > > > proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! > > > > > > – > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![dreev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/dreev/32/4311_2.png) [@dreev](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/dreev)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/6 "2012-01-28T23:46:05Z")
Jumping the fee schedule: We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those initial derailments. And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting without pledging if you want. God-like powers: We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that. “No way I am giving them money when I mess up”: Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point. PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of [pricing – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/money) but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on [blog.beeminder.com](http://blog.beeminder.com) ! PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is still secret)! On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud [veganjill@gmail.com](mailto:veganjill@gmail.com) wrote: > Danny, > > I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be > like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some features > to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I > think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the fact > that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require > subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly slowed. I > would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and > maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple (lets > say more than 3) goals. > > I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming akrasia. > > I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are > already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their > roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental to > beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making less > money in the long run. > > I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only > $8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep. > > I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again, > isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances since > they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model will > make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of course I > haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they > drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive numbers > of subscribers. > > -Jill > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty [robfelty@gmail.com](mailto:robfelty@gmail.com) wrote: > > > I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces > > too many complications. > > > > Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to put > > money on the line for your goal at all? > > > > I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3. > > Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would target > > more like $5 per month. > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Akratics, > > > We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following > > > premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth > > > paying $12/month for Beeminder: > > > > > > 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use > > > Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] > > > > > > 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add > > > arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon > > > we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that > > > tempts you to cheat on your contracts. > > > > > > 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that > > > motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few > > > initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting > > > demoralized and not resetting at all!). > > > > > > 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this > > > stuff for us! > > > > > > 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t > > > implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) > > > > > > Danny and Bethany > > > > > > [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want > > > Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] > > > > > > [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting > > > pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is > > > just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation > > > Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re > > > paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in > > > proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! > > > > > > – > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![bloch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bloch](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/bloch)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/7 "2012-01-29T17:17:51Z")
[0]: When would this feature ever become relevant, if you have any long term goals? [1]: That’s a downright anti-feature. I would pay to avoid this. The strict one-week akrasia horizon trains your ability to think ahead, which would be undermined by a cheat mode. [2]: Possibly useful. Not something I would pay to get access to. [3]: Nice but vague. [4]: I like that the pledges go to you. Feature-value to me: 0$ How about letting friends pledge on your goals instead? This could be motivating since you don’t want to be the reason they lose money. So none of the above features would move me (users like me) to pay a monthly fee. Premium package I would pay up to 8$/month for: - Unlimited graphs (put a cap on number of graphs for free users) - Organize graphs by least number of safe days (Make it easier not drive of road, when you have a lot of goals) - Group goals by categories (When you get above a certain amount of goals, the user page layout gets cluttered and confusing) - Timely reminders about upcomming events and deadlines relevant to my goals (a user-specified version of your Thansgiving-reminder) ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Jenkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Jake\_Jenkins](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Jake_Jenkins)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/8 "2012-01-30T19:11:53Z")
I like Daniel’s line of thought here. There is a basic marketing problem if your most involved users are drawing connections to Netflix. The truth is that Beeminder couldn’t be more different that Netflix. Netflix is all about consumption. It is reasonably priced because it is competing against other forms of consumption like cable tv, video games, etc. I don’t have cable because I 1) I don’t want to be tempted to watch it all the time and 2) think it is too expensive for what I would use it for. With Netflix I reduced my overhead and also found that I watch much less TV. You could argue that you can get more calories for cheaper if you eat junk food but we all know (whether we follow it or not) that an investment in healthy food will pay off in myriad other ways. Beeminder is about improving yourself. A tool to hold yourself accountable when willpower alone has failed you in the past. Beeminder is a tool you might use to reduce your Consumption and increase your Creation. To reduce your junk food intake and increase your health food intake. I have been using Beeminder to increase the amount of time I practice guitar and write daily. Both of these, in my opinion, are forms of Creation, and I have valued having them in my life. Is Beeminder the only way I could have made this progress? Probably not. But it is one way, and so far it has been effective for me. I shouldn’t be comparing Beeminder to Netflix or Cable. I should be comparing it to other cost of investing in my quality of life. Some reoccuring costs of investing in my quality of life: ~$100/month - extra cost of higher quality food ingredients $60 /month - gym membership $40 /month - fish oil supplements $3/ month - Vitamin D3 supplement $3/ month - Multivitamin Helping someone make lasting and positive change in their life is priceless (cliche statement, but true on some level.) If Beeminder doesn’t work for someone then they aren’t going to become a member. If beeminder does work then they need to be convinced of the value of the service and pay accordingly. On 1/28/12, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) wrote: > Rob, Jake, Jill, thanks so much for these insights! > > Let’s not get hung up on the price yet. As David Yang just pointed > out, it’s possible we should be thinking about _higher_ prices so > you’re not tempted to compare with netflix! 🙂 > It’s all very relative. Think about plus or minus $12 on your gym > membership. If one gym had a much higher probability of getting you to > actually go to it, a $12 differential would seem trivial, right? > > One more defense of high prices: Companies that charge just a few > dollars a month are counting on you to think of it as approximately > nothing and never think about it, whether you keep using the service > or not. (I’m seriously annoyed at the probably $50 per movie I’ve > probably effectively paid netflix because I’ve been too damn akratic > to ever get around to canceling it, or because I always think that > Real Soon Now things will slow down enough for me to relax and watch > movies once in a while and make that – admittedly super cheap – > subscription worthwhile!) > > So, yeah, we don’t want to be like that! We want to focus on people > for whom Beeminder is, no exaggeration, life-changing. Cf > [testimonials – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/testimonials) > > But, yes, we want it to continue to stay free for less hardcore users. > Like your first attempt is always free and it always stays free as > long as you stay on your yellow brick road. Maybe we’ll add limits to > how many goals you can create. > > (More specific responses in separate email.) > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud [veganjill@gmail.com](mailto:veganjill@gmail.com) wrote: > > > Danny, > > > > I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be > > like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some > > features > > to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I > > think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the > > fact > > that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require > > subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly slowed. > > I > > would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and > > maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple > > (lets > > say more than 3) goals. > > > > I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming akrasia. > > > > I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are > > already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their > > roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental to > > beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making less > > money in the long run. > > > > I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only > > $8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep. > > > > I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again, > > isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances > > since > > they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model > > will > > make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of course > > I > > haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they > > drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive numbers > > of subscribers. > > > > -Jill > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty [robfelty@gmail.com](mailto:robfelty@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces > > > too many complications. > > > > > > Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to > > > put > > > money on the line for your goal at all? > > > > > > I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3. > > > Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would > > > target > > > more like $5 per month. > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Akratics, > > > > We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following > > > > premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth > > > > paying $12/month for Beeminder: > > > > > > > > 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use > > > > Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] > > > > > > > > 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add > > > > arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon > > > > we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that > > > > tempts you to cheat on your contracts. > > > > > > > > 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that > > > > motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few > > > > initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting > > > > demoralized and not resetting at all!). > > > > > > > > 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this > > > > stuff for us! > > > > > > > > 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t > > > > implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) > > > > > > > > Danny and Bethany > > > > > > > > [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want > > > > Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] > > > > > > > > [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting > > > > pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is > > > > just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation > > > > Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re > > > > paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in > > > > proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! > > > > > > > > – > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Jenkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Jake\_Jenkins](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Jake_Jenkins)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/9 "2012-01-31T16:09:09Z")
Daniel, Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where my mind is. I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder Premium Subscriber. Please send me the secret link. Anyone else out there going to join me? Jake -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) Sender: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05 To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) Reply-To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions Jumping the fee schedule: We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those initial derailments. And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting without pledging if you want. God-like powers: We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that. “No way I am giving them money when I mess up”: Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point. PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of [pricing – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/money) but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on [blog.beeminder.com](http://blog.beeminder.com) ! PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is still secret)! On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud [veganjill@gmail.com](mailto:veganjill@gmail.com) wrote: > Danny, > > I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be > like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some features > to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I > think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the fact > that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require > subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly slowed. I > would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and > maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple (lets > say more than 3) goals. > > I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming akrasia. > > I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are > already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their > roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental to > beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making less > money in the long run. > > I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only > $8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep. > > I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again, > isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances since > they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model will > make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of course I > haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they > drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive numbers > of subscribers. > > -Jill > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty [robfelty@gmail.com](mailto:robfelty@gmail.com) wrote: > > > I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces > > too many complications. > > > > Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to put > > money on the line for your goal at all? > > > > I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3. > > Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would target > > more like $5 per month. > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Akratics, > > > We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following > > > premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth > > > paying $12/month for Beeminder: > > > > > > 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use > > > Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] > > > > > > 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add > > > arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon > > > we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that > > > tempts you to cheat on your contracts. > > > > > > 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that > > > motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few > > > initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting > > > demoralized and not resetting at all!). > > > > > > 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this > > > stuff for us! > > > > > > 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t > > > implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) > > > > > > Danny and Bethany > > > > > > [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want > > > Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] > > > > > > [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting > > > pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is > > > just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation > > > Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re > > > paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in > > > proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! > > > > > > – > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![dy1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/dy1/32/189_2.png) [@dy1](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/dy1)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/10 "2012-01-31T16:38:46Z")
I’m in. On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Jake Jenkins [j2jenkins@gmail.com](mailto:j2jenkins@gmail.com) wrote: > Daniel, > > Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where my > mind is. > > I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder Premium > Subscriber. > > Please send me the secret link. > > Anyone else out there going to join me? > > Jake > > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > Sender: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05 > To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > Reply-To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions > > Jumping the fee schedule: > > We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times > in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for > free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can > immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one > person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really > keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by > the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that > bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those > initial derailments. > > And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting > without pledging if you want. > > God-like powers: > > We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers > if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to > commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if > you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that. > > “No way I am giving them money when I mess up”: > > Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on > this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re > either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is > crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use > a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just > cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much > more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point. > > PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of > [pricing – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/money) but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How > about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty > of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case > would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on > [blog.beeminder.com](http://blog.beeminder.com) ! > > PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people > to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is > still secret)! > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud [veganjill@gmail.com](mailto:veganjill@gmail.com) wrote: > > > Danny, > > > > I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be > > like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some > > features > > to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I > > think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the > > fact > > that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require > > subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly > > slowed. I > > would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and > > maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple > > (lets > > say more than 3) goals. > > > > I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming > > akrasia. > > > > I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are > > already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their > > roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental to > > beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making less > > money in the long run. > > > > I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only > > $8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep. > > > > I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again, > > isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances > > since > > they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model > > will > > make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of > > course I > > haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they > > drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive > > numbers > > of subscribers. > > > > -Jill > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty [robfelty@gmail.com](mailto:robfelty@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces > > > too many complications. > > > > > > Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to > > > put > > > money on the line for your goal at all? > > > > > > I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3. > > > Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would > > > target > > > more like $5 per month. > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Akratics, > > > > We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following > > > > premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth > > > > paying $12/month for Beeminder: > > > > > > > > 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use > > > > Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] > > > > > > > > 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add > > > > arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon > > > > we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that > > > > tempts you to cheat on your contracts. > > > > > > > > 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that > > > > motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few > > > > initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting > > > > demoralized and not resetting at all!). > > > > > > > > 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this > > > > stuff for us! > > > > > > > > 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t > > > > implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) > > > > > > > > Danny and Bethany > > > > > > > > [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want > > > > Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] > > > > > > > > [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting > > > > pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is > > > > just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation > > > > Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re > > > > paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in > > > > proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! > > > > > > > > – > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Isaac\_Schankler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Isaac\_Schankler](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Isaac_Schankler)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/11 "2012-01-31T17:28:16Z")
Yeah, none of these are things I would really feel compelled to pay for. Things I might pay for include: 1. A Pomodoro-style app that automatically updates Beeminder when I complete a block: [http://pomodoro.ugolandini.com/](http://pomodoro.ugolandini.com/) (A more user-friendly version of TagTime might work too, but I’m not a fan of the “interrupt you while you work” model.) 2. Being able to do more fancy stuff with the data. The value of the data goes beyond just tracking for commitment contracts, I think – it’s a great potential device for actually _understanding_ what our working habits are and how to change them. For a while I’ve wanted graphs that are a function of other graphs, so that I could, for example, take the sum of a few graphs to see how many total hours I’ve worked, or the ratio of two graphs to see if they’re correlated. This would undoubtedly be a lot of work to implement but it would really push the “data nerd” angle of Beeminder and distinguish it even more from all the other commitment contract websites popping up lately. (Sorry if this is off-topic.) Isaac On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 9:17 AM, bloch [stefanbloch@gmail.com](mailto:stefanbloch@gmail.com) wrote: > [0]: When would this feature ever become relevant, if you have any > long term goals? > > [1]: That’s a downright anti-feature. I would pay to avoid this. The > strict one-week akrasia horizon trains your ability to think ahead, > which would be undermined by a cheat mode. > > [2]: Possibly useful. Not something I would pay to get access to. > > [3]: Nice but vague. > > [4]: I like that the pledges go to you. Feature-value to me: 0$ > How about letting friends pledge on your goals instead? This could be > motivating since you don’t want to be the reason they lose money. > > So none of the above features would move me (users like me) to pay a > monthly fee. > > Premium package I would pay up to 8$/month for: > > - Unlimited graphs (put a cap on number of graphs for free users) > - Organize graphs by least number of safe days (Make it easier not > drive of road, when you have a lot of goals) > - Group goals by categories (When you get above a certain amount of > goals, the user page layout gets cluttered and confusing) > - Timely reminders about upcomming events and deadlines relevant to my > goals (a user-specified version of your Thansgiving-reminder) ---
**Author:** ![dreev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/dreev/32/4311_2.png) [@dreev](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/dreev)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 10:05am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/12 "2012-02-01T10:05:18Z")
Thanks so much, Jake and David! We’ll send you the secret subscription link. Here’s someone else who seems like a good candidate for subscriptions (in theory, anyway), if they can get that much motivation without pledging: [http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story\_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645](http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645) On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 10:38, David Yang [david.g.yang@gmail.com](mailto:david.g.yang@gmail.com) wrote: > I’m in. > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Jake Jenkins [j2jenkins@gmail.com](mailto:j2jenkins@gmail.com) wrote: > > > Daniel, > > > > Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where my > > mind is. > > > > I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder Premium > > Subscriber. > > > > Please send me the secret link. > > > > Anyone else out there going to join me? > > > > Jake > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > Sender: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05 > > To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > Reply-To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions > > > > Jumping the fee schedule: > > > > We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times > > in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for > > free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can > > immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one > > person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really > > keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by > > the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that > > bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those > > initial derailments. > > > > And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting > > without pledging if you want. > > > > God-like powers: > > > > We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers > > if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to > > commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if > > you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that. > > > > “No way I am giving them money when I mess up”: > > > > Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on > > this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re > > either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is > > crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use > > a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just > > cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much > > more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point. > > > > PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of > > [pricing – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/money) but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How > > about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty > > of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case > > would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on > > [blog.beeminder.com](http://blog.beeminder.com) ! > > > > PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people > > to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is > > still secret)! > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud [veganjill@gmail.com](mailto:veganjill@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > Danny, > > > > > > I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be > > > like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some > > > features > > > to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I > > > think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the > > > fact > > > that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require > > > subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly > > > slowed. I > > > would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and > > > maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple > > > (lets > > > say more than 3) goals. > > > > > > I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming > > > akrasia. > > > > > > I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are > > > already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their > > > roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental > > > to > > > beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making > > > less > > > money in the long run. > > > > > > I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only > > > $8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep. > > > > > > I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again, > > > isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances > > > since > > > they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model > > > will > > > make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of > > > course I > > > haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they > > > drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive > > > numbers > > > of subscribers. > > > > > > -Jill > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty [robfelty@gmail.com](mailto:robfelty@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It > > > > introduces > > > > too many complications. > > > > > > > > Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to > > > > put > > > > money on the line for your goal at all? > > > > > > > > I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3. > > > > Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would > > > > target > > > > more like $5 per month. > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Akratics, > > > > > We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following > > > > > premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth > > > > > paying $12/month for Beeminder: > > > > > > > > > > 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use > > > > > Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] > > > > > > > > > > 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add > > > > > arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon > > > > > we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that > > > > > tempts you to cheat on your contracts. > > > > > > > > > > 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that > > > > > motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few > > > > > initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting > > > > > demoralized and not resetting at all!). > > > > > > > > > > 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this > > > > > stuff for us! > > > > > > > > > > 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t > > > > > implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) > > > > > > > > > > Danny and Bethany > > > > > > > > > > [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want > > > > > Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] > > > > > > > > > > [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting > > > > > pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is > > > > > just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation > > > > > Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re > > > > > paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in > > > > > proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > – > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![dreev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/dreev/32/4311_2.png) [@dreev](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/dreev)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 8:33am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/13 "2012-02-21T08:33:15Z")
Update on subscriptions: they’re not ready yet! We’ve got a plan though! Stay tuned… In other news, we just tweeted our 365th daily UVI (user-visible improvement). We’ve come a long way, considering that a year ago we were still 8 months away from publicly launching. (We should’ve done that much sooner, in retrospect. Though it was surprisingly hard to get it to the point that most people could create and manage their goals without manual intervention from me and Bethany.) It’s exciting to imagine what Beeminder will be like in another year. It feels so good to be bound to that [uvi – meta – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/meta/uvi) road and know that there’s no way we can allow ourselves to stagnate or get totally derailed by raising funding or any of the other ways startups flounder. On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 02:05, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) wrote: > Thanks so much, Jake and David! We’ll send you the secret subscription link. > > Here’s someone else who seems like a good candidate for subscriptions > (in theory, anyway), if they can get that much motivation without > pledging: > [http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story\_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645](http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645) > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 10:38, David Yang [david.g.yang@gmail.com](mailto:david.g.yang@gmail.com) wrote: > > > I’m in. > > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Jake Jenkins [j2jenkins@gmail.com](mailto:j2jenkins@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > Daniel, > > > > > > Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where my > > > mind is. > > > > > > I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder Premium > > > Subscriber. > > > > > > Please send me the secret link. > > > > > > Anyone else out there going to join me? > > > > > > Jake > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > > Sender: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05 > > > To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > > Reply-To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > > Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions > > > > > > Jumping the fee schedule: > > > > > > We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times > > > in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for > > > free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can > > > immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one > > > person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really > > > keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by > > > the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that > > > bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those > > > initial derailments. > > > > > > And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting > > > without pledging if you want. > > > > > > God-like powers: > > > > > > We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers > > > if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to > > > commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if > > > you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that. > > > > > > “No way I am giving them money when I mess up”: > > > > > > Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on > > > this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re > > > either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is > > > crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use > > > a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just > > > cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much > > > more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point. > > > > > > PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of > > > [pricing – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/money) but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How > > > about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty > > > of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case > > > would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on > > > [blog.beeminder.com](http://blog.beeminder.com) ! > > > > > > PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people > > > to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is > > > still secret)! > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud [veganjill@gmail.com](mailto:veganjill@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > Danny, > > > > > > > > I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be > > > > like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some > > > > features > > > > to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I > > > > think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the > > > > fact > > > > that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require > > > > subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly > > > > slowed. I > > > > would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and > > > > maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple > > > > (lets > > > > say more than 3) goals. > > > > > > > > I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming > > > > akrasia. > > > > > > > > I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are > > > > already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their > > > > roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental > > > > to > > > > beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making > > > > less > > > > money in the long run. > > > > > > > > I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only > > > > $8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep. > > > > > > > > I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again, > > > > isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances > > > > since > > > > they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model > > > > will > > > > make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of > > > > course I > > > > haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they > > > > drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive > > > > numbers > > > > of subscribers. > > > > > > > > -Jill > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty [robfelty@gmail.com](mailto:robfelty@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It > > > > > introduces > > > > > too many complications. > > > > > > > > > > Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to > > > > > put > > > > > money on the line for your goal at all? > > > > > > > > > > I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3. > > > > > Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would > > > > > target > > > > > more like $5 per month. > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Akratics, > > > > > > We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following > > > > > > premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth > > > > > > paying $12/month for Beeminder: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use > > > > > > Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add > > > > > > arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon > > > > > > we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that > > > > > > tempts you to cheat on your contracts. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that > > > > > > motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few > > > > > > initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting > > > > > > demoralized and not resetting at all!). > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this > > > > > > stuff for us! > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t > > > > > > implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Danny and Bethany > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want > > > > > > Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] > > > > > > > > > > > > [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting > > > > > > pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is > > > > > > just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation > > > > > > Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re > > > > > > paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in > > > > > > proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > – > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![dreev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/dreev/32/4311_2.png) [@dreev](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/dreev)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 6:12am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/14 "2013-03-25T06:12:15Z")
I’m resurrecting this year-old thread to say that we’ve finally deployed subscriptions! Here’s what I just tweeted (@bmndr): Fun fact: you have to spend \>$200 to get to an $810 commitment contract on Beeminder. And some people do! But starting now… You can jump straight to any pledge amount you want with our premium plan for the low, low price of $40/month (includes other perqs too) Everyone who participated in this thread a year ago gets a steep discount. Yay! (I’ll ping you separately with a secret link.) (It’s fascinating reading this old thread. One of the things that invalidates much of that old discussion is precommit-to-recommit. Like with our original intrepid guinea pig who was willing to pay a lot to jump to a high pledge level. He was wholly motivated by the danger of sticking his head in the sand and not re-railing himself. So people like him may no longer care about subscribing. They’ll be happy to just ride out the pledge schedule till the amounts get scary. That obviously works out great for Beeminder as well.) Thanks again everyone! Danny, Bethany, Andy, and Team PS: If you want a peek way behind the curtain, check out our trello card about all this: > **[Trello](https://trello.com/card/subscriptions/4f079dbc30a67d1864012d6b/483)** > > Organize anything, together. Trello is a collaboration tool that organizes your projects into boards. In one glance, know what's being worked on, who's working on what, and where something is in a process. On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 12:33 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) wrote: > Update on subscriptions: they’re not ready yet! We’ve got a plan > though! Stay tuned… > > In other news, we just tweeted our 365th daily UVI (user-visible improvement). > We’ve come a long way, considering that a year ago we were still 8 > months away from publicly launching. (We should’ve done that much > sooner, in retrospect. Though it was surprisingly hard to get it to > the point that most people could create and manage their goals without > manual intervention from me and Bethany.) > > It’s exciting to imagine what Beeminder will be like in another year. > It feels so good to be bound to that [uvi – meta – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/meta/uvi) road and > know that there’s no way we can allow ourselves to stagnate or get > totally derailed by raising funding or any of the other ways startups > flounder. > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 02:05, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) wrote: > > > Thanks so much, Jake and David! We’ll send you the secret subscription link. > > > > Here’s someone else who seems like a good candidate for subscriptions > > (in theory, anyway), if they can get that much motivation without > > pledging: > > [http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story\_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645](http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645) > > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 10:38, David Yang [david.g.yang@gmail.com](mailto:david.g.yang@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > I’m in. > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Jake Jenkins [j2jenkins@gmail.com](mailto:j2jenkins@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > Daniel, > > > > > > > > Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where my > > > > mind is. > > > > > > > > I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder Premium > > > > Subscriber. > > > > > > > > Please send me the secret link. > > > > > > > > Anyone else out there going to join me? > > > > > > > > Jake > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > > > Sender: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > > > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05 > > > > To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > > > Reply-To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > > > Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions > > > > > > > > Jumping the fee schedule: > > > > > > > > We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times > > > > in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for > > > > free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can > > > > immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one > > > > person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really > > > > keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by > > > > the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that > > > > bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those > > > > initial derailments. > > > > > > > > And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting > > > > without pledging if you want. > > > > > > > > God-like powers: > > > > > > > > We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers > > > > if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to > > > > commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if > > > > you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that. > > > > > > > > “No way I am giving them money when I mess up”: > > > > > > > > Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on > > > > this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re > > > > either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is > > > > crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use > > > > a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just > > > > cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much > > > > more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point. > > > > > > > > PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of > > > > [pricing – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/money) but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How > > > > about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty > > > > of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case > > > > would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on > > > > [blog.beeminder.com](http://blog.beeminder.com) ! > > > > > > > > PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people > > > > to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is > > > > still secret)! > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud [veganjill@gmail.com](mailto:veganjill@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > Danny, > > > > > > > > > > I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be > > > > > like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some > > > > > features > > > > > to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I > > > > > think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the > > > > > fact > > > > > that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require > > > > > subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly > > > > > slowed. I > > > > > would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and > > > > > maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple > > > > > (lets > > > > > say more than 3) goals. > > > > > > > > > > I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming > > > > > akrasia. > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are > > > > > already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their > > > > > roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental > > > > > to > > > > > beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making > > > > > less > > > > > money in the long run. > > > > > > > > > > I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only > > > > > $8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep. > > > > > > > > > > I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again, > > > > > isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances > > > > > since > > > > > they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model > > > > > will > > > > > make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of > > > > > course I > > > > > haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they > > > > > drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive > > > > > numbers > > > > > of subscribers. > > > > > > > > > > -Jill > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty [robfelty@gmail.com](mailto:robfelty@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It > > > > > > introduces > > > > > > too many complications. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to > > > > > > put > > > > > > money on the line for your goal at all? > > > > > > > > > > > > I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3. > > > > > > Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would > > > > > > target > > > > > > more like $5 per month. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Akratics, > > > > > > > We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following > > > > > > > premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth > > > > > > > paying $12/month for Beeminder: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use > > > > > > > Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add > > > > > > > arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon > > > > > > > we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that > > > > > > > tempts you to cheat on your contracts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that > > > > > > > motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few > > > > > > > initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting > > > > > > > demoralized and not resetting at all!). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this > > > > > > > stuff for us! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t > > > > > > > implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Danny and Bethany > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want > > > > > > > Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting > > > > > > > pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is > > > > > > > just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation > > > > > > > Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re > > > > > > > paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in > > > > > > > proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > – > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > – > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![afcuttin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@afcuttin](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/afcuttin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 9:12am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/15 "2013-03-25T09:12:29Z")
Hi Daniel, it’s interesting to see how your business model evolves in time. I have a question: what about a tagtime goal? Does it require the custom goal, available only to premium? Or a Do more goal will do the same? On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 7:12 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com)wrote: > I’m resurrecting this year-old thread to say that we’ve finally > deployed subscriptions! Here’s what I just tweeted (@bmndr): > > Fun fact: you have to spend \>$200 to get to an $810 commitment > contract on Beeminder. And some people do! But starting now… > You can jump straight to any pledge amount you want with our premium > plan for the low, low price of $40/month (includes other perqs too) > > Everyone who participated in this thread a year ago gets a steep > discount. Yay! (I’ll ping you separately with a secret link.) > > (It’s fascinating reading this old thread. One of the things that > invalidates much of that old discussion is precommit-to-recommit. Like > with our original intrepid guinea pig who was willing to pay a lot to > jump to a high pledge level. He was wholly motivated by the danger of > sticking his head in the sand and not re-railing himself. So people > like him may no longer care about subscribing. They’ll be happy to > just ride out the pledge schedule till the amounts get scary. That > obviously works out great for Beeminder as well.) > > Thanks again everyone! > Danny, Bethany, Andy, and Team > > PS: If you want a peek way behind the curtain, check out our trello > card about all this: > [Trello](https://trello.com/card/subscriptions/4f079dbc30a67d1864012d6b/483) > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 12:33 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > wrote: > > > Update on subscriptions: they’re not ready yet! We’ve got a plan > > though! Stay tuned… > > > > In other news, we just tweeted our 365th daily UVI (user-visible > > improvement). > > We’ve come a long way, considering that a year ago we were still 8 > > months away from publicly launching. (We should’ve done that much > > sooner, in retrospect. Though it was surprisingly hard to get it to > > the point that most people could create and manage their goals without > > manual intervention from me and Bethany.) > > > > It’s exciting to imagine what Beeminder will be like in another year. > > It feels so good to be bound to that [uvi – meta – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/meta/uvi) road and > > know that there’s no way we can allow ourselves to stagnate or get > > totally derailed by raising funding or any of the other ways startups > > flounder. > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 02:05, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > wrote: > > > > > Thanks so much, Jake and David! We’ll send you the secret subscription > > > link. > > > > > > Here’s someone else who seems like a good candidate for subscriptions > > > (in theory, anyway), if they can get that much motivation without > > > pledging: > > [http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story\_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645](http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645) > > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 10:38, David Yang [david.g.yang@gmail.com](mailto:david.g.yang@gmail.com) > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I’m in. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Jake Jenkins [j2jenkins@gmail.com](mailto:j2jenkins@gmail.com) > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Daniel, > > > > > > > > > > Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where > > > > > my > > > > > mind is. > > > > > > > > > > I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder > > > > > Premium > > > > > Subscriber. > > > > > > > > > > Please send me the secret link. > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else out there going to join me? > > > > > > > > > > Jake > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > > > > Sender: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > > > > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05 > > > > > To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > > > > Reply-To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > > > > Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions > > > > > > > > > > Jumping the fee schedule: > > > > > > > > > > We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times > > > > > in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for > > > > > free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can > > > > > immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one > > > > > person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really > > > > > keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by > > > > > the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that > > > > > bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those > > > > > initial derailments. > > > > > > > > > > And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting > > > > > without pledging if you want. > > > > > > > > > > God-like powers: > > > > > > > > > > We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers > > > > > if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to > > > > > commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if > > > > > you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that. > > > > > > > > > > “No way I am giving them money when I mess up”: > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on > > > > > this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re > > > > > either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is > > > > > crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use > > > > > a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just > > > > > cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much > > > > > more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point. > > > > > > > > > > PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of > > > > > [pricing – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/money) but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How > > > > > about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty > > > > > of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case > > > > > would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on > > > > > [blog.beeminder.com](http://blog.beeminder.com) ! > > > > > > > > > > PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people > > > > > to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is > > > > > still secret)! > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud [veganjill@gmail.com](mailto:veganjill@gmail.com) > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Danny, > > > > > > > > > > > > I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will > > > > > > this be > > > > > > like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some > > > > > > features > > > > > > to all people for free and then with additional features for a > > > > > > cost? I > > > > > > think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to > > > > > > the > > > > > > fact > > > > > > that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to > > > > > > require > > > > > > subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly > > > > > > slowed. I > > > > > > would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place > > > > > > and > > > > > > maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track > > > > > > multiple > > > > > > (lets > > > > > > say more than 3) goals. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming > > > > > > akrasia. > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if > > > > > > they are > > > > > > already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on > > > > > > their > > > > > > roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is > > > > > > detrimental > > > > > > to > > > > > > beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making > > > > > > less > > > > > > money in the long run. > > > > > > > > > > > > I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is > > > > > > only > > > > > > $8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep. > > > > > > > > > > > > I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then > > > > > > again, > > > > > > isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of > > > > > > finances > > > > > > since > > > > > > they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription > > > > > > model > > > > > > will > > > > > > make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of > > > > > > course I > > > > > > haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they > > > > > > drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive > > > > > > numbers > > > > > > of subscribers. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Jill > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty [robfelty@gmail.com](mailto:robfelty@gmail.com) > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It > > > > > > > introduces > > > > > > > too many complications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > put > > > > > > > money on the line for your goal at all? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only > > > > > > > $3. > > > > > > > Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > target > > > > > > > more like $5 per month. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves \< > > > > > > > [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com)\> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Akratics, > > > > > > > > We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following > > > > > > > > premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth > > > > > > > > paying $12/month for Beeminder: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you > > > > > > > > don’t use > > > > > > > > Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can > > > > > > > > add > > > > > > > > arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. > > > > > > > > Soon > > > > > > > > we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > tempts you to cheat on your contracts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few > > > > > > > > initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting > > > > > > > > demoralized and not resetting at all!). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > stuff for us! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t > > > > > > > > implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Danny and Bethany > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want > > > > > > > > Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far > > > > > > > > (collecting > > > > > > > > pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is > > > > > > > > just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your > > > > > > > > Motivation > > > > > > > > Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and > > > > > > > > you’re > > > > > > > > paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in > > > > > > > > proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > – > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > – > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/groups/opt\_out](https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out). ---
**Author:** ![dreev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/dreev/32/4311_2.png) [@dreev](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/dreev)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/beeminder-subscriptions/1361/16 "2013-03-25T17:09:45Z")
good question! either Do More or Set A Limit should work for TagTime. I’ll update the TagTime docs. [and done] btw, we’re getting some backlash already on $40/month. here’s our latest thinking: Free short-circuiting needs to be pretty expensive since our whole livelihood so far is from people climbing the pledge schedule. But if we just add a tier for everything _but_ short-circuiting for $10/month I think we’re getting the best of all worlds. Or maybe 3 tiers: - $5/month for just tips of the day and custom goals - $10/month to also be able to get rid of old goals - $40/month to also shortcircuit for free On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 2:12 AM, Alessandro Cuttin [a.f.cuttin@gmail.com](mailto:a.f.cuttin@gmail.com) wrote: > Hi Daniel, > > it’s interesting to see how your business model evolves in time. > > I have a question: what about a tagtime goal? Does it require the custom > goal, available only to premium? Or a Do more goal will do the same? > > On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 7:12 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > wrote: > > > I’m resurrecting this year-old thread to say that we’ve finally > > deployed subscriptions! Here’s what I just tweeted (@bmndr): > > > > Fun fact: you have to spend \>$200 to get to an $810 commitment > > contract on Beeminder. And some people do! But starting now… > > You can jump straight to any pledge amount you want with our premium > > plan for the low, low price of $40/month (includes other perqs too) > > > > Everyone who participated in this thread a year ago gets a steep > > discount. Yay! (I’ll ping you separately with a secret link.) > > > > (It’s fascinating reading this old thread. One of the things that > > invalidates much of that old discussion is precommit-to-recommit. Like > > with our original intrepid guinea pig who was willing to pay a lot to > > jump to a high pledge level. He was wholly motivated by the danger of > > sticking his head in the sand and not re-railing himself. So people > > like him may no longer care about subscribing. They’ll be happy to > > just ride out the pledge schedule till the amounts get scary. That > > obviously works out great for Beeminder as well.) > > > > Thanks again everyone! > > Danny, Bethany, Andy, and Team > > > > PS: If you want a peek way behind the curtain, check out our trello > > card about all this: > > [Trello](https://trello.com/card/subscriptions/4f079dbc30a67d1864012d6b/483) > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 12:33 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > wrote: > > > > > Update on subscriptions: they’re not ready yet! We’ve got a plan > > > though! Stay tuned… > > > > > > In other news, we just tweeted our 365th daily UVI (user-visible > > > improvement). > > > We’ve come a long way, considering that a year ago we were still 8 > > > months away from publicly launching. (We should’ve done that much > > > sooner, in retrospect. Though it was surprisingly hard to get it to > > > the point that most people could create and manage their goals without > > > manual intervention from me and Bethany.) > > > > > > It’s exciting to imagine what Beeminder will be like in another year. > > > It feels so good to be bound to that [uvi – meta – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/meta/uvi) road and > > > know that there’s no way we can allow ourselves to stagnate or get > > > totally derailed by raising funding or any of the other ways startups > > > flounder. > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 02:05, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks so much, Jake and David! We’ll send you the secret subscription > > > > link. > > > > > > > > Here’s someone else who seems like a good candidate for subscriptions > > > > (in theory, anyway), if they can get that much motivation without > > > > pledging: > > > > > > > > [http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story\_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645](http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645) > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 10:38, David Yang [david.g.yang@gmail.com](mailto:david.g.yang@gmail.com) > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I’m in. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Jake Jenkins [j2jenkins@gmail.com](mailto:j2jenkins@gmail.com) > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Daniel, > > > > > > > > > > > > Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where > > > > > > my > > > > > > mind is. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder > > > > > > Premium > > > > > > Subscriber. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please send me the secret link. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else out there going to join me? > > > > > > > > > > > > Jake > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > > > > > Sender: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > > > > > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05 > > > > > > To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > > > > > Reply-To: [akratics@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com) > > > > > > Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions > > > > > > > > > > > > Jumping the fee schedule: > > > > > > > > > > > > We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times > > > > > > in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for > > > > > > free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you > > > > > > can > > > > > > immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one > > > > > > person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really > > > > > > keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by > > > > > > the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that > > > > > > bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those > > > > > > initial derailments. > > > > > > > > > > > > And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting > > > > > > without pledging if you want. > > > > > > > > > > > > God-like powers: > > > > > > > > > > > > We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers > > > > > > if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready > > > > > > to > > > > > > commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if > > > > > > you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > “No way I am giving them money when I mess up”: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on > > > > > > this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re > > > > > > either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is > > > > > > crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to > > > > > > use > > > > > > a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would > > > > > > just > > > > > > cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with > > > > > > much > > > > > > more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of > > > > > > [pricing – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/money) but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How > > > > > > about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty > > > > > > of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your > > > > > > case > > > > > > would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on > > > > > > [blog.beeminder.com](http://blog.beeminder.com) ! > > > > > > > > > > > > PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people > > > > > > to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is > > > > > > still secret)! > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud [veganjill@gmail.com](mailto:veganjill@gmail.com) > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Danny, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will > > > > > > > this be > > > > > > > like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some > > > > > > > features > > > > > > > to all people for free and then with additional features for a > > > > > > > cost? I > > > > > > > think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > fact > > > > > > > that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to > > > > > > > require > > > > > > > subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly > > > > > > > slowed. I > > > > > > > would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track > > > > > > > multiple > > > > > > > (lets > > > > > > > say more than 3) goals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming > > > > > > > akrasia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if > > > > > > > they are > > > > > > > already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is > > > > > > > detrimental > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up > > > > > > > making > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > money in the long run. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > $8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then > > > > > > > again, > > > > > > > isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of > > > > > > > finances > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription > > > > > > > model > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of > > > > > > > course I > > > > > > > haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they > > > > > > > drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive > > > > > > > numbers > > > > > > > of subscribers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Jill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty [robfelty@gmail.com](mailto:robfelty@gmail.com) > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It > > > > > > > > introduces > > > > > > > > too many complications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > money on the line for your goal at all? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only > > > > > > > > $3. > > > > > > > > Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > target > > > > > > > > more like $5 per month. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves > > > > > > > > [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Akratics, > > > > > > > > > We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following > > > > > > > > > premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth > > > > > > > > > paying $12/month for Beeminder: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you > > > > > > > > > don’t use > > > > > > > > > Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can > > > > > > > > > add > > > > > > > > > arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. > > > > > > > > > Soon > > > > > > > > > we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > tempts you to cheat on your contracts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few > > > > > > > > > initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting > > > > > > > > > demoralized and not resetting at all!). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > stuff for us! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t > > > > > > > > > implemented yet, just seeing what people think.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Danny and Bethany > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want > > > > > > > > > Beeminder to only profit off of _fixing_ akrasia! [2] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far > > > > > > > > > (collecting > > > > > > > > > pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your > > > > > > > > > Motivation > > > > > > > > > Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and > > > > > > > > > you’re > > > > > > > > > paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in > > > > > > > > > proportion to how badly you need Beeminder! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > – > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > – > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > – > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > – > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/groups/opt\_out](https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out). > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/groups/opt\_out](https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out). – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com)