# loop holes for weight loss contracts **URL:** \ **Category:** uncategorized\ **Created:** [July 19, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/loop-holes-for-weight-loss-contracts/1317 "2011-07-19T19:19:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/loop-holes-for-weight-loss-contracts/1317/1 "2011-07-19T19:19:13Z")
From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) Date: Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 12:53 Subject: loop holes for weight loss contracts Bethany and Laurie each have $5k at risk on a weight loss contract that ends May 5. But Laurie is leaving for Europe 2 weeks before that and Bethany (not coincidentally) is leaving for Europe 4 days before that. The question: is it too weaselly a loophole for them to use the Vacation Clause of their contracts to just declare victory on the day they depart? Here’s the clause in question: > You can choose not to report up to 3 weeks (needed for vacations when you’re without your scale), but on the 22nd day after your last recorded data point, you have to report. > Not reporting at that time will result in loss by default. > The 3 weeks allowance gives the opportunity also in case you choose to let things go a little with plans to work really hard when you return. > NOTE: this is NOT recommended. Use your commitment to prove that vacations don’t have to spell disaster for your weight since you can make smart choices and still have fun. > It’s in your interest to report as often as possible as this allows beeminder to reflect your widest road possible, giving you more room to fluctuate without going off the road. Can we have a verdict from the contract owners? (David Yang, David Reiley, and Steven) Possibly relevant: May 5 was actually chosen as the contract end date because it’s my grandma’s 90th birthday, which is the occasion for the vacation. So it’s arguably in the spirit of the contract for it to end when they depart. And arguably within the letter of the contract since the contract fails to specify what should happen if you invoke the vacation clause within 3 weeks of the end date. On the other hand, the first thing the contract says is “I promise not to weasel!” 🙂 I propose a compromise: Allow the early declaration of victory under the condition that they both put the $5k back at risk on a new yellow brick road when they return (with the same terms and with David, David, and Steven still owning the contracts). And, actually, speaking of commitments, Bethany committed not to leave on this vacation if we don’t have the new Beeminder launched before then. We’re getting close! – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/loop-holes-for-weight-loss-contracts/1317/2 "2011-07-19T19:19:39Z")
From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) Date: Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 13:59 Subject: Fwd: loop holes for weight loss contracts Irene said I could pass this along. Apparently Brits pluralize “scale”. Either that or she’s so OCD about accurate weight tracking that she needs multiple independent measurements. 🙂 Or maybe she has like a balance scale where you hang the fulcrum from a tree and load one side up with rocks (stones, they would say). That must be how they do it over there. (I’m guessing that’s the etymological reason for the pluralization anyway. Do we have a linguist on hand?) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Irene Randall [irandall52@yahoo.co.uk](mailto:irandall52@yahoo.co.uk) Date: Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 13:08 Subject: Re: loop holes for weight loss contracts To: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) Ah ha! I am going on vacation - in Europe (but thats where I live!!) and considering taking my scales with me…or Bethany and Laurie could use the well calibrated scales in pharmacies in most European towns. I think the very fact that they included a vacation clause indicates they were thinking weaselly-ly from the outset. We do have lots of healthy food in Europe and they will probably be doing lots of walking - sightseeing and so on. Hope they enjoy the vacation and Grandma’s 90th! OK - Ive added my scales to the packing list…and can log in everyday on my iphone from campsites… Irene Randall * * * From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) To: [akratics@beeminder.com](mailto:akratics@beeminder.com) Sent: Wed, 20 April, 2011 18:53:36 Subject: loop holes for weight loss contracts Bethany and Laurie each have $5k at risk on a weight loss contract that ends May 5. But Laurie is leaving for Europe 2 weeks before that and Bethany (not coincidentally) is leaving for Europe 4 days before that. The question: is it too weaselly a loophole for them to use the Vacation Clause of their contracts to just declare victory on the day they depart? Here’s the clause in question: > You can choose not to report up to 3 weeks (needed for vacations when you’re without your scale), but on the 22nd day after your last recorded data point, you have to report. > Not reporting at that time will result in loss by default. > The 3 weeks allowance gives the opportunity also in case you choose to let things go a little with plans to work really hard when you return. > NOTE: this is NOT recommended. Use your commitment to prove that vacations don’t have to spell disaster for your weight since you can make smart choices and still have fun. > It’s in your interest to report as often as possible as this allows beeminder to reflect your widest road possible, giving you more room to fluctuate without going off the road. Can we have a verdict from the contract owners? (David Yang, David Reiley, and Steven) Possibly relevant: May 5 was actually chosen as the contract end date because it’s my grandma’s 90th birthday, which is the occasion for the vacation. So it’s arguably in the spirit of the contract for it to end when they depart. And arguably within the letter of the contract since the contract fails to specify what should happen if you invoke the vacation clause within 3 weeks of the end date. On the other hand, the first thing the contract says is “I promise not to weasel!” 🙂 I propose a compromise: Allow the early declaration of victory under the condition that they both put the $5k back at risk on a new yellow brick road when they return (with the same terms and with David, David, and Steven still owning the contracts). And, actually, speaking of commitments, Bethany committed not to leave on this vacation if we don’t have the new Beeminder launched before then. We’re getting close! – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/loop-holes-for-weight-loss-contracts/1317/3 "2011-07-19T19:20:16Z")
From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) Date: Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 23:44 Subject: Re: loop holes for weight loss contracts For lack of objections from the contract owners and with Laurie leaving in the morning, let’s make my compromise the official interpretation of the contracts. Note that that only applies to the weight loss goals. Laurie still has to do 3 more workouts despite vacation (the first one within 6 days from now). And Bethany and I have several things we’ll need a safety buffer on before leaving: [beeminder.com/bd](http://beeminder.com/bd) (Luckily we’ve already locked up the hardest yellow brick roads – our 40 hours/week work goals – thanks to scrambling to launch the new beeminder before we leave.) On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 13:59, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > Irene said I could pass this along. > Apparently Brits pluralize “scale”. Either that or she’s so OCD about > accurate weight tracking that she needs multiple independent > measurements. 🙂 > Or maybe she has like a balance scale where you hang the fulcrum from > a tree and load one side up with rocks (stones, they would say). > That must be how they do it over there. > > (I’m guessing that’s the etymological reason for the pluralization > anyway. Do we have a linguist on hand?) > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Irene Randall [irandall52@yahoo.co.uk](mailto:irandall52@yahoo.co.uk) > Date: Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 13:08 > Subject: Re: loop holes for weight loss contracts > To: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) > > Ah ha! I am going on vacation - in Europe (but thats where I live!!) > and considering taking my scales with me…or Bethany and Laurie > could use the well calibrated scales in pharmacies in most European > towns. I think the very fact that they included a vacation clause > indicates they were thinking weaselly-ly from the outset. We do have > lots of healthy food in Europe and they will probably be doing lots of > walking - sightseeing and so on. > Hope they enjoy the vacation and Grandma’s 90th! > OK - Ive added my scales to the packing list…and can log in > everyday on my iphone from campsites… > > Irene Randall > > * * * > > From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) > To: [akratics@beeminder.com](mailto:akratics@beeminder.com) > Sent: Wed, 20 April, 2011 18:53:36 > Subject: loop holes for weight loss contracts > > Bethany and Laurie each have $5k at risk on a weight loss contract > that ends May 5. > But Laurie is leaving for Europe 2 weeks before that and Bethany (not > coincidentally) is leaving for Europe 4 days before that. > The question: is it too weaselly a loophole for them to use the > Vacation Clause of their contracts to just declare victory on the day > they depart? > > Here’s the clause in question: > > > You can choose not to report up to 3 weeks (needed for vacations when you’re without your scale), but on the 22nd day after your last recorded data point, you have to report. > > Not reporting at that time will result in loss by default. > > The 3 weeks allowance gives the opportunity also in case you choose to let things go a little with plans to work really hard when you return. > > NOTE: this is NOT recommended. Use your commitment to prove that vacations don’t have to spell disaster for your weight since you can make smart choices and still have fun. > > It’s in your interest to report as often as possible as this allows beeminder to reflect your widest road possible, giving you more room to fluctuate without going off the road. > > Can we have a verdict from the contract owners? (David Yang, David > Reiley, and Steven) > > Possibly relevant: May 5 was actually chosen as the contract end date > because it’s my grandma’s 90th birthday, which is the occasion for the > vacation. So it’s arguably in the spirit of the contract for it to end > when they depart. And arguably within the letter of the contract since > the contract fails to specify what should happen if you invoke the > vacation clause within 3 weeks of the end date. On the other hand, > the first thing the contract says is “I promise not to weasel!” 🙂 > > I propose a compromise: Allow the early declaration of victory under > the condition that they both put the $5k back at risk on a new yellow > brick road when they return (with the same terms and with David, > David, and Steven still owning the contracts). > > And, actually, speaking of commitments, Bethany committed not to leave > on this vacation if we don’t have the new Beeminder launched before > then. We’re getting close! > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com)