# No more new features please

**URL:** <https://forum.beeminder.com/t/no-more-new-features-please/1454>\
**Category:** uncategorized\
**Created:** [September 28, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/no-more-new-features-please/1454 "2013-09-28T15:38:23Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 5\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Essentiae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Essentiae](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Essentiae)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/no-more-new-features-please/1454/1 "2013-09-28T15:38:23Z")

</div>

This is going to seem like an odd request but I would personally love it if  
you guys would flatten your UVI graph for a little while and just tweak the  
existing stuff (sorry… by “tweak” I mean “discuss and maybe fix”… but I  
didn’t want to make it sound like everything is broken; it’s not). Maybe  
also create a few “this is how this feature works” paragraphs we could read  
when we’re lost. I find I’m often running across behaviour I don’t expect  
and into new changes where things don’t work the way they worked last week  
or they work in a way I would not have guessed in a hundred years of  
guessing and so on, and I’m kind of dizzy from it.

I’d love to talk a little more in [Ak.An](http://Ak.An). and maybe test (and figure out)  
some of the changes to the features I’d become so used to before having to  
learn any new features or any new changes to the old features on which I  
was depending.

Am I just overwhelmed by outside considerations and taking it out on  
Beeminder, or does anyone else feel like they need a bit of a second to  
regain their balance where it comes to catching up with the changes?

Cranky and taking it out on others,  
Essy

(PS - I was one of the worst “Hey can we have this new feature and then  
that new feature and then…” perpetrators of the bunch, but I recant. I  
cry “uncle”. I would like to get used to all the changes that have happened  
and try to figure out how to use them.)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Jill\_Renaud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@Jill\_Renaud](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Jill_Renaud)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/no-more-new-features-please/1454/2 "2013-09-28T16:45:13Z")

</div>

Hey Essy,

Anything you’re finding particularly confusing and would like a write up  
about? I agree that an ever changing product is hard to keep up with.  
Sometimes is it hard to do support when they launch new features that I  
haven’t tried myself.

-Jill

On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Essentiae [essentiae@gmail.com](mailto:essentiae@gmail.com) wrote:

> This is going to seem like an odd request but I would personally love it  
> if you guys would flatten your UVI graph for a little while and just tweak  
> the existing stuff (sorry… by “tweak” I mean “discuss and maybe fix”…  
> but I didn’t want to make it sound like everything is broken; it’s not).  
> Maybe also create a few “this is how this feature works” paragraphs we  
> could read when we’re lost. I find I’m often running across behaviour I  
> don’t expect and into new changes where things don’t work the way they  
> worked last week or they work in a way I would not have guessed in a  
> hundred years of guessing and so on, and I’m kind of dizzy from it.
> 
> I’d love to talk a little more in Ak.An. and maybe test (and figure out)  
> some of the changes to the features I’d become so used to before having to  
> learn any new features or any new changes to the old features on which I  
> was depending.
> 
> Am I just overwhelmed by outside considerations and taking it out on  
> Beeminder, or does anyone else feel like they need a bit of a second to  
> regain their balance where it comes to catching up with the changes?
> 
> Cranky and taking it out on others,  
> Essy
> 
> (PS - I was one of the worst “Hey can we have this new feature and then  
> that new feature and then…” perpetrators of the bunch, but I recant. I  
> cry “uncle”. I would like to get used to all the changes that have happened  
> and try to figure out how to use them.)
> 
> –  
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups  
> “Akratics Anonymous” group.  
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an  
> email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com).  
> For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/groups/opt\_out](https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out).

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![dreev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/dreev/32/4311_2.png) [@dreev](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/dreev)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/no-more-new-features-please/1454/3 "2013-09-28T21:22:17Z")

</div>

Essy and I have started discussing specifics of this off-list but I  
don’t mind it all being public so I’m repeating my responses here:

1. As Bethany immediately pointed out, UVIs != features. Features  
should be a tiny fraction of UVIs. I agree that lately the  
features-to-fixes ratio has been high.

2. Problems with Retroratchet

We should probably get a specific bug report here. Anytime you have  
more than a day of safety buffer it ought to let you retroratchet.  
When you do retroratchet the effect should be to reduce the number of  
safe days. If you point us to specific examples where it’s not doing  
that that would be hugely helpful.

1. Problems with Scheduled Breaks

Scheduled breaks has a fundamental problem in that there’s not enough  
transparency about how you’ve changed the yellow brick road. More on  
this below.

1. Problems with Autoratchet (max safe days) for Do Less goals

I think autoratchet has some brokenness and probably especially so for Do Less.

1. Better online help

Agreed. I think we should add more tooltips to things, but I think  
Bethany and Andy disagree with that. It is tricky with tablets where  
mouseovers don’t work. Maybe more question-mark icons to click on?

1. Discuss changes on akranon before implementing

Agreed. Yell at me when I fail to do that. (Not that this is a  
democracy but it’s very much worth our time to explicate what we plan  
to do and to understand other points of view.)

1. Fix things before adding new features =\> wait on generalized road dial?

Here’s a question for Essy and everyone. I’m pretty excited about the  
generalized road dial – the spec is taking shape at  
[Graph Editor](http://expost.padm.us/dial) – and have high hopes that it’s going to fix  
brokenness (if we do it carefully) and remove confusion about  
retroratchet, autoratchet (max safe days), and scheduled breaks. It  
should be a single, transparent interface for making the YBR do  
whatever you like.

The question: Am I delusional and we should slow that shit down and  
fix up and clarify the existing features? Or does that indeed sound  
like a solution to a lot of the problems you’re having?

Thank you so much for the help here. It’s occasionally the case that,  
with you (Essy) using Beeminder more intensely than pretty much anyone  
else, you run into bugs or issues that pretty much no one else does.  
But, as Jill pointed out when we discussed this, for the kinds of  
things you’re talking about here it’s mostly the opposite. If you’re  
confused/frustrated by recent changes then others will be even more  
so.

Another thing Uluc brought up when we were discussing this: The other  
recent highly constructive criticism here from Brian Crain about  
categorizing goals and avoiding inbox-style overload… Essy has  
solved that _beautifully_ with her custom interface (OK to point to  
that again?) and we should definitely be incorporating those ideas.

Thanks again, everyone, for pushing us toward ever greater  
awesomeness! For real.

On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 8:38 AM, Essentiae [essentiae@gmail.com](mailto:essentiae@gmail.com) wrote:

> This is going to seem like an odd request but I would personally love it if  
> you guys would flatten your UVI graph for a little while and just tweak the  
> existing stuff (sorry… by “tweak” I mean “discuss and maybe fix”… but I  
> didn’t want to make it sound like everything is broken; it’s not). Maybe  
> also create a few “this is how this feature works” paragraphs we could read  
> when we’re lost. I find I’m often running across behaviour I don’t expect  
> and into new changes where things don’t work the way they worked last week  
> or they work in a way I would not have guessed in a hundred years of  
> guessing and so on, and I’m kind of dizzy from it.
> 
> I’d love to talk a little more in Ak.An. and maybe test (and figure out)  
> some of the changes to the features I’d become so used to before having to  
> learn any new features or any new changes to the old features on which I was  
> depending.
> 
> Am I just overwhelmed by outside considerations and taking it out on  
> Beeminder, or does anyone else feel like they need a bit of a second to  
> regain their balance where it comes to catching up with the changes?
> 
> Cranky and taking it out on others,  
> Essy
> 
> (PS - I was one of the worst “Hey can we have this new feature and then that  
> new feature and then…” perpetrators of the bunch, but I recant. I cry  
> “uncle”. I would like to get used to all the changes that have happened and  
> try to figure out how to use them.)
> 
> –  
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups  
> “Akratics Anonymous” group.  
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an  
> email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com).  
> For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/groups/opt\_out](https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out).

–  
[http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves”  
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Essentiae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Essentiae](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Essentiae)\
**Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/no-more-new-features-please/1454/4 "2013-09-29T17:11:17Z")

</div>

_1. UVIs != features._  
I don’t really mind new/changed features as long as there’s somewhere for  
me to look to get clarification on how they’ve changed and they’re working  
in a predictable fashion. I’ve been having trouble with the last of that  
list and when I look to figure out what I’m doing wrong, there isn’t really  
anywhere to check other than emailing support.

_2. If you point us to specific examples where it’s not doing that that  
would be hugely helpful._  
Will do. It’s over 40% of the time that I hit the retroratchet button that  
I get the “hellz no” response, so I’ll start sending them in more  
frequently.

_3. Scheduled Breaks: not enough transparency about how you’ve changed the  
yellow brick road_  
That, and that it has been outright going wonky, especially after a few  
changes in a row (yup, waited for the graph to be done refreshing each  
time). Trying to take every Saturday off by trying to add a bunch of  
Saturdays off in a row resulted in mayhem.

_4. Autoratchet (and retroratchet) for Do Less goals_  
No idea what’s actually happening with these b/c sometimes when I request a  
retroratchet with 2 days left it denies me that. Then I ask for a  
retroratchet with 1 day of buffer left and it agrees, does it, and the time  
now says I have 2 days left. _Confused_

_5. Online info and tooltips_  
Just a flat page I can command-f or ctrl-f my way through would be great  
for the “wth is this?” moments (maybe question marks could link to sections  
of that page or something. And then perhaps make any recent changes to that  
document (2-3 weeks) in red font so we can see what’s different when we run  
for help, too?) And warnings about new features that are visible (like a  
red star beside a recently altered or new feature (1-2 weeks for things on  
the graph itself and 2-4 weeks when it’s a change you might not be as  
likely to see, like one that’s in the settings) with an  
information/instruction tool-tip about the changes that we could mouseover  
(or, better yet for us tablet junkies, click on) to get more info about how  
it’s going to be different now. (Like the retroratchet changes that were  
being made. For a while that feature changed almost daily it seemed. It  
stopped changing the slope, it starting requiring a larger buffer, it  
stopped using units for do-less, etc. All great changes, but it makes what  
you’re about to do less predictable if you aren’t keeping up in the threads  
and emails and blog posts. (That’s probably why I’m feeling a little lost  
now, actually. I rarely have the time to follow those now so I’m lost about  
what’s happening when and would like to find that in the interface when I  
need it, rather than keep up with all of it as a skill-set/knowledge-set in  
its own right. When I went from being obsessed with Beeminder to just  
relying on it, my ability to keep up with the changes dropped, I think. (But  
make no mistake, no matter how whinny I am this weekend, I rely on  
Beeminder so heavily that I feel like I will owe you a full paragraph on  
the acknowledgements page of an upcoming project, at the very least. I’m  
cranky, not disgruntled. This is still the bee’s knees to me… get it?..  
cause… dorky…))

\*6. Discuss changes on akranon before implementing \*  
Actually, I was thinking mostly about after, cause you guys talk about  
changes you’re thinking about all the time to get feedback. I think that  
getting a bunch of testers to deliberately test the crap out of a feature  
and discuss odd results could be helpful once the change has happened.  
Maybe you could even get a group of volunteer testers on a mailing list to  
deliberately put new features through quirky testing. As soon as you get a  
"hmm… what happened here?" email from someone, you could get those of us  
on the list (opt-in) who currently have the time to test the crap out of  
whatever seemed off? I don’t know. I’m certain this is an area in which  
you’ll have way more ideas than me. But whatever leads to more  
predictability = best.

\*7. Fix things before adding new features =\> wait on generalized road dial?  
\*  
As with all this other stuff, and every single thing that comes out of my  
mouth (keyboard), this is just my opinion but I think that if you think  
this new feature (not really sure what it is as I’m out of the loop a  
little) will fix a lot of other broken things, I would still do some kind  
of instruction info/page first. After showing a few people Beeminder, I was  
surprised at how many questions they had for which answers were collected  
from my use, mistakes, and emails to support. I was able to pass some of  
that on to them, but they couldn’t find anything for themselves.  
Personally, I think being able to answer the “wth does this do?” question  
is a huge priority in the way people are talking about interacting with the  
site when they’re new. (And I’ve lost an attempted convert to a rival site  
who’s name shall remain unmentioned b/c they were able to understand what  
to do easily. That made me sad!)

_"Or does that indeed sound like a solution to a lot of the problems you’re  
having?"_  
I think you’ll probably know that best cause you have a clearer idea of  
what that change will cause as upshots. I love control and predictability.  
Whatever gives me that will make me happy. Whenever I lose that, I become a  
frantic, hysterical, cranky mess!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![dreev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/dreev/32/4311_2.png) [@dreev](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/dreev)\
**Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/no-more-new-features-please/1454/5 "2013-10-02T06:57:54Z")

</div>

> when I look to figure out what I’m doing wrong, there isn’t really anywhere  
> to check other than emailing support.

Just a reminder that it’s massively helpful to us when you email  
support to ask a question (ideally one question per email – and don’t  
hold back on sending multiple emails). Our heads are in this so deep  
that we don’t know what’s obvious and what’s confusing, so if  
something happens that you didn’t expect or you forget some rule of  
rerailing or something and a quick search doesn’t immediately answer  
it, ASK US. Hopefully we can give you a quick answer but more  
importantly, it teaches us about what’s wrong with Beeminder that you  
had to ask in the first place.

I know most people won’t listen to me on that, so let me also point  
out something that’s becoming a seed for useful online help, namely,  
the Beeminder glossary: [Beeminder Glossary | Beeminder Blog](http://blog.beeminder.com/glossary)  
You probably don’t want to read all that or even remember to go search  
there but it hopefully means that you can google for things like  
“beeminder pessimistic presumptive” and land on a concise bit of  
documentation. Possibly also add “glossary” to the google search.

> I feel like I will owe you a full paragraph on the acknowledgements page of  
> an upcoming project, at the very least. I’m cranky, not disgruntled. This is  
> still the bee’s knees to me… get it?.. cause… dorky…

_blush_ _giggle_

> And I’ve lost an attempted convert to a rival site who’s name  
> shall remain unmentioned b/c they were able to understand what to do easily.  
> That made me sad!

Oh come on, I want to know which rival! StickK? Gympact?

–  
[http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves”  
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com)