# one-more-day syndrome **URL:** \ **Category:** uncategorized\ **Created:** [July 19, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312 "2011-07-19T19:03:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312/1 "2011-07-19T19:03:35Z")
[I was confused before. This is the thread about turning soft deadlines into hard deadlines.] From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) Date: Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:16 Subject: one-more-day syndrome Here’s a classic example of akrasia. You really need to see the doctor or the dentist (or your lawyer, etc etc) soon (or maybe just soon-ish). But each successive day you don’t – after all, it’s literally true that one more day won’t matter. But a year matters a lot, and that’s just 365 of those one-more-days in a row. How do you akratics deal with that? – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://"Daniel Reeves" Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://"Daniel Reeves" Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312/2 "2011-07-19T19:03:59Z")
From: David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) Date: Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:21 Subject: Re: one-more-day syndrome Eventually I just say “This is ridiculous… I have to make time to book a doctor appointment.” The pain of not doing it does become increasingly severe, particularly if I’ve got a medical symptom I need to deal with. Of course, I’ve now been waiting nearly a year to write to our landscape designer to say we’re ready to hire her to start installing the landscape she designed for us. But a lot has happened since… my home remodel cost more than I thought, and then neighbors started complaining about our hot tub and requiring us to apply for a permit in a contentious process, so we are not keen to rip out plants that are currently blocking our neighbors’ view of the tub. Etc. So maybe I will wait just a little longer… Best, David On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:16 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > Here’s a classic example of akrasia. You really need to see the doctor > or the dentist (or your lawyer, etc etc) soon (or maybe just > soon-ish). But each successive day you don’t – after all, it’s > literally true that one more day won’t matter. But a year matters a > lot, and that’s just 365 of those one-more-days in a row. How do you > akratics deal with that? > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312/3 "2011-07-19T19:04:16Z")
From: Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) Date: Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:21 Subject: Re: one-more-day syndrome Just fine yourself $2 if you procrastinate one day, $4 for two days, $8 for three days, $16 for four days, and so on. You’ll do it within a week. On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > Here’s a classic example of akrasia. You really need to see the doctor > or the dentist (or your lawyer, etc etc) soon (or maybe just > soon-ish). But each successive day you don’t – after all, it’s > literally true that one more day won’t matter. But a year matters a > lot, and that’s just 365 of those one-more-days in a row. How do you > akratics deal with that? > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312/4 "2011-07-19T19:04:30Z")
From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) Date: Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:42 Subject: Re: one-more-day syndrome How do you get yourself to take the fine seriously? My future self just rolls his eyes at me and says screw that. Or maybe he feels bad about it but he’s certainly not going to do something so immediately painful as pay a fine. Maybe tomorrow he’ll pay it. (Serious question.) On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:21, Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) wrote: > Just fine yourself $2 if you procrastinate one day, $4 for two days, > $8 for three days, $16 for four days, and so on. > > You’ll do it within a week. > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > > > Here’s a classic example of akrasia. You really need to see the doctor > > or the dentist (or your lawyer, etc etc) soon (or maybe just > > soon-ish). But each successive day you don’t – after all, it’s > > literally true that one more day won’t matter. But a year matters a > > lot, and that’s just 365 of those one-more-days in a row. How do you > > akratics deal with that? > > > > – > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312/5 "2011-07-19T19:04:59Z")
From: David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) Date: Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:43 Subject: Re: one-more-day syndrome Why would you have any more problem paying the fine on this contract than on any other Beeminder contract you’ve done? David On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > How do you get yourself to take the fine seriously? My future self > just rolls his eyes at me and says screw that. Or maybe he feels bad > about it but he’s certainly not going to do something so immediately > painful as pay a fine. Maybe tomorrow he’ll pay it. > > (Serious question.) > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:21, Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) wrote: > > > Just fine yourself $2 if you procrastinate one day, $4 for two days, > > $8 for three days, $16 for four days, and so on. > > > > You’ll do it within a week. > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > > > > > Here’s a classic example of akrasia. You really need to see the doctor > > > or the dentist (or your lawyer, etc etc) soon (or maybe just > > > soon-ish). But each successive day you don’t – after all, it’s > > > literally true that one more day won’t matter. But a year matters a > > > lot, and that’s just 365 of those one-more-days in a row. How do you > > > akratics deal with that? > > > > > > – > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312/6 "2011-07-19T19:05:16Z")
From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) Date: Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:48 Subject: Re: one-more-day syndrome Oh, because a commitment to another person is completely different than a commitment to my past self. That past self doesn’t even really exist anymore. Who the hell cares what he thinks? On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:43, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > Why would you have any more problem paying the fine on this contract than on any other Beeminder contract you’ve done? > > David > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > How do you get yourself to take the fine seriously? My future self > > just rolls his eyes at me and says screw that. Or maybe he feels bad > > about it but he’s certainly not going to do something so immediately > > painful as pay a fine. Maybe tomorrow he’ll pay it. > > > > (Serious question.) > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:21, Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) wrote: > > > > > Just fine yourself $2 if you procrastinate one day, $4 for two days, > > > $8 for three days, $16 for four days, and so on. > > > > > > You’ll do it within a week. > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > > > > > > > Here’s a classic example of akrasia. You really need to see the doctor > > > > or the dentist (or your lawyer, etc etc) soon (or maybe just > > > > soon-ish). But each successive day you don’t – after all, it’s > > > > literally true that one more day won’t matter. But a year matters a > > > > lot, and that’s just 365 of those one-more-days in a row. How do you > > > > akratics deal with that? > > > > > > > > – > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > – > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > – > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312/7 "2011-07-19T19:05:36Z")
From: David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) Date: Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:50 Subject: Re: one-more-day syndrome So just set up the fine contract with another person. I figured that was implicit in Dan’s proposal. Note that, unlike most Beeminder contracts, this one seems relatively easy to enforce (hard to cheat). “Did you go to the doctor yet? Yes or no.” Harder to lie, or round your weight down, or whatever. David On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > Oh, because a commitment to another person is completely different > than a commitment to my past self. That past self doesn’t even really > exist anymore. Who the hell cares what he thinks? > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:43, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > Why would you have any more problem paying the fine on this contract than on any other Beeminder contract you’ve done? > > > > David > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > How do you get yourself to take the fine seriously? My future self > > > just rolls his eyes at me and says screw that. Or maybe he feels bad > > > about it but he’s certainly not going to do something so immediately > > > painful as pay a fine. Maybe tomorrow he’ll pay it. > > > > > > (Serious question.) > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:21, Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) wrote: > > > > > > > Just fine yourself $2 if you procrastinate one day, $4 for two days, > > > > $8 for three days, $16 for four days, and so on. > > > > > > > > You’ll do it within a week. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > > > > > > > > > Here’s a classic example of akrasia. You really need to see the doctor > > > > > or the dentist (or your lawyer, etc etc) soon (or maybe just > > > > > soon-ish). But each successive day you don’t – after all, it’s > > > > > literally true that one more day won’t matter. But a year matters a > > > > > lot, and that’s just 365 of those one-more-days in a row. How do you > > > > > akratics deal with that? > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > – > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > – > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312/8 "2011-07-19T19:05:55Z")
From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) Date: Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 17:08 Subject: Re: one-more-day syndrome Yeah, good point. (But Dan is an extraordinary akratic in that I think he actually can self-enforce.) This kind of a binary commitment doesn’t seem so well-suited to Beeminder and a yellow brick road. And stickK seems way too high-overhead for simple things like this. (It’s easier to just freaking call the doctor than to set up a stickK contract.) I need something like integrated into my calendar where I say I’m going to call the doctor by this date and everything with the penalty (I like Dan’s idea of starting with a dollar and doubling each day) is automatic. (Btw, there aren’t many of you on this list yet. You’re kind of the super elite as far as the akrasia aspect of Beeminder is concerned, so I’m especially eager to hear what you all think of the idea of a more streamlined way to self-bind on trivial things like calling the doctor.) On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:50, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > So just set up the fine contract with another person. I figured that was implicit in Dan’s proposal. > > Note that, unlike most Beeminder contracts, this one seems relatively easy to enforce (hard to cheat). “Did you go to the doctor yet? Yes or no.” Harder to lie, or round your weight down, or whatever. > > David > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > Oh, because a commitment to another person is completely different > > than a commitment to my past self. That past self doesn’t even really > > exist anymore. Who the hell cares what he thinks? > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:43, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > > > Why would you have any more problem paying the fine on this contract than on any other Beeminder contract you’ve done? > > > > > > David > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > > > How do you get yourself to take the fine seriously? My future self > > > > just rolls his eyes at me and says screw that. Or maybe he feels bad > > > > about it but he’s certainly not going to do something so immediately > > > > painful as pay a fine. Maybe tomorrow he’ll pay it. > > > > > > > > (Serious question.) > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:21, Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > Just fine yourself $2 if you procrastinate one day, $4 for two days, > > > > > $8 for three days, $16 for four days, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > You’ll do it within a week. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Here’s a classic example of akrasia. You really need to see the doctor > > > > > > or the dentist (or your lawyer, etc etc) soon (or maybe just > > > > > > soon-ish). But each successive day you don’t – after all, it’s > > > > > > literally true that one more day won’t matter. But a year matters a > > > > > > lot, and that’s just 365 of those one-more-days in a row. How do you > > > > > > akratics deal with that? > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > – > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > – > > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > > > – > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > – > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312/9 "2011-07-19T19:06:16Z")
From: David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) Date: Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 17:09 Subject: Re: one-more-day syndrome Is this really an akrasia thing? Or is this just difficulty paying attention, and organizing one’s to-do list to make the soon-overdue task increasingly important? David On Mar 28, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > Yeah, good point. (But Dan is an extraordinary akratic in that I think > he actually can self-enforce.) > This kind of a binary commitment doesn’t seem so well-suited to > Beeminder and a yellow brick road. > And stickK seems way too high-overhead for simple things like this. > (It’s easier to just freaking call the doctor than to set up a stickK > contract.) > > I need something like integrated into my calendar where I say I’m > going to call the doctor by this date and everything with the penalty > (I like Dan’s idea of starting with a dollar and doubling each day) is > automatic. > > (Btw, there aren’t many of you on this list yet. You’re kind of the > super elite as far as the akrasia aspect of Beeminder is concerned, so > I’m especially eager to hear what you all think of the idea of a more > streamlined way to self-bind on trivial things like calling the > doctor.) > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:50, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > So just set up the fine contract with another person. I figured that was implicit in Dan’s proposal. > > > > Note that, unlike most Beeminder contracts, this one seems relatively easy to enforce (hard to cheat). “Did you go to the doctor yet? Yes or no.” Harder to lie, or round your weight down, or whatever. > > > > David > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > Oh, because a commitment to another person is completely different > > > than a commitment to my past self. That past self doesn’t even really > > > exist anymore. Who the hell cares what he thinks? > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:43, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > > > > > Why would you have any more problem paying the fine on this contract than on any other Beeminder contract you’ve done? > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > > > > > How do you get yourself to take the fine seriously? My future self > > > > > just rolls his eyes at me and says screw that. Or maybe he feels bad > > > > > about it but he’s certainly not going to do something so immediately > > > > > painful as pay a fine. Maybe tomorrow he’ll pay it. > > > > > > > > > > (Serious question.) > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:21, Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Just fine yourself $2 if you procrastinate one day, $4 for two days, > > > > > > $8 for three days, $16 for four days, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > You’ll do it within a week. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here’s a classic example of akrasia. You really need to see the doctor > > > > > > > or the dentist (or your lawyer, etc etc) soon (or maybe just > > > > > > > soon-ish). But each successive day you don’t – after all, it’s > > > > > > > literally true that one more day won’t matter. But a year matters a > > > > > > > lot, and that’s just 365 of those one-more-days in a row. How do you > > > > > > > akratics deal with that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > – > > > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > > > > > – > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > – > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312/10 "2011-07-19T19:08:53Z")
From: Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) Date: Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 17:26 Subject: Re: one-more-day syndrome I was just at this “Behavioral Economics and Health” symposium at Penn and met the StickK CEO (David, he said that he knew that you knew Karlan and Ayres). Anyway, after this I went to StickK to see how hard it is to set up a contract. It was really easy - they have these templates for common goals (e.g. weight loss) that boil it down to a few questions. The longest part was entering the credit card, but once they have that, you can make new contracts in about a minute. These kind of “Do It or Double Down” contracts could be a special template, and be really easy to set up (When does the penalty start? Who is the referee? Done). However, it is true that since seeing the doctor is little more than the ‘next action’ of picking up the phone to make an appointment (\*), then you would indeed just get it done before even making a contract. Sooo, what you need is to tie it to the calendar entry. You set a calendar entry far in the future (which is low cost because it is easy to make promises in the future), and once that date passes if you don’t check off the alert as “completed”, the doubling down begins automatically. Requires your credit card to be already in the system. If more palatable, it can begin with one penny (it still reaches $10 million in a month). (\*) Example taken from Getting Things Done On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:09 PM, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > Is this really an akrasia thing? Or is this just difficulty paying attention, and organizing one’s to-do list to make the soon-overdue task increasingly important? > > David > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > Yeah, good point. (But Dan is an extraordinary akratic in that I think > > he actually can self-enforce.) > > This kind of a binary commitment doesn’t seem so well-suited to > > Beeminder and a yellow brick road. > > And stickK seems way too high-overhead for simple things like this. > > (It’s easier to just freaking call the doctor than to set up a stickK > > contract.) > > > > I need something like integrated into my calendar where I say I’m > > going to call the doctor by this date and everything with the penalty > > (I like Dan’s idea of starting with a dollar and doubling each day) is > > automatic. > > > > (Btw, there aren’t many of you on this list yet. You’re kind of the > > super elite as far as the akrasia aspect of Beeminder is concerned, so > > I’m especially eager to hear what you all think of the idea of a more > > streamlined way to self-bind on trivial things like calling the > > doctor.) > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:50, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > > > So just set up the fine contract with another person. I figured that was implicit in Dan’s proposal. > > > > > > Note that, unlike most Beeminder contracts, this one seems relatively easy to enforce (hard to cheat). “Did you go to the doctor yet? Yes or no.” Harder to lie, or round your weight down, or whatever. > > > > > > David > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > > > Oh, because a commitment to another person is completely different > > > > than a commitment to my past self. That past self doesn’t even really > > > > exist anymore. Who the hell cares what he thinks? > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:43, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > Why would you have any more problem paying the fine on this contract than on any other Beeminder contract you’ve done? > > > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > How do you get yourself to take the fine seriously? My future self > > > > > > just rolls his eyes at me and says screw that. Or maybe he feels bad > > > > > > about it but he’s certainly not going to do something so immediately > > > > > > painful as pay a fine. Maybe tomorrow he’ll pay it. > > > > > > > > > > > > (Serious question.) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:21, Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just fine yourself $2 if you procrastinate one day, $4 for two days, > > > > > > > $8 for three days, $16 for four days, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You’ll do it within a week. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here’s a classic example of akrasia. You really need to see the doctor > > > > > > > > or the dentist (or your lawyer, etc etc) soon (or maybe just > > > > > > > > soon-ish). But each successive day you don’t – after all, it’s > > > > > > > > literally true that one more day won’t matter. But a year matters a > > > > > > > > lot, and that’s just 365 of those one-more-days in a row. How do you > > > > > > > > akratics deal with that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > > > > > > > – > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > – > > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > > > – > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > – > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312/11 "2011-07-19T19:09:15Z")
From: Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) Date: Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 18:12 Subject: Re: one-more-day syndrome Nice! If stickK had an API I would say it would be worth building this on top of stickK. Since it doesn’t I think this might make sense for Beeminder to do, if we’re convinced this is valuable. David Reiley asks if it’s really akrasia or just a faulty to-do list. To me it feels like the former; I’ve tried a lot of to-do list tricks. On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 17:26, Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) wrote: > I was just at this “Behavioral Economics and Health” symposium at Penn > and met the StickK CEO (David, he said that he knew that you knew > Karlan and Ayres). Anyway, after this I went to StickK to see how hard > it is to set up a contract. It was really easy - they have these > templates for common goals (e.g. weight loss) that boil it down to a > few questions. The longest part was entering the credit card, but once > they have that, you can make new contracts in about a minute. These > kind of “Do It or Double Down” contracts could be a special template, > and be really easy to set up (When does the penalty start? Who is the > referee? Done). > > However, it is true that since seeing the doctor is little more than > the ‘next action’ of picking up the phone to make an appointment (\*), > then you would indeed just get it done before even making a contract. > > Sooo, what you need is to tie it to the calendar entry. You set a > calendar entry far in the future (which is low cost because it is easy > to make promises in the future), and once that date passes if you > don’t check off the alert as “completed”, the doubling down begins > automatically. Requires your credit card to be already in the system. > If more palatable, it can begin with one penny (it still reaches $10 > million in a month). > > (\*) Example taken from Getting Things Done > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:09 PM, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > Is this really an akrasia thing? Or is this just difficulty paying attention, and organizing one’s to-do list to make the soon-overdue task increasingly important? > > > > David > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > Yeah, good point. (But Dan is an extraordinary akratic in that I think > > > he actually can self-enforce.) > > > This kind of a binary commitment doesn’t seem so well-suited to > > > Beeminder and a yellow brick road. > > > And stickK seems way too high-overhead for simple things like this. > > > (It’s easier to just freaking call the doctor than to set up a stickK > > > contract.) > > > > > > I need something like integrated into my calendar where I say I’m > > > going to call the doctor by this date and everything with the penalty > > > (I like Dan’s idea of starting with a dollar and doubling each day) is > > > automatic. > > > > > > (Btw, there aren’t many of you on this list yet. You’re kind of the > > > super elite as far as the akrasia aspect of Beeminder is concerned, so > > > I’m especially eager to hear what you all think of the idea of a more > > > streamlined way to self-bind on trivial things like calling the > > > doctor.) > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:50, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > > > > > So just set up the fine contract with another person. I figured that was implicit in Dan’s proposal. > > > > > > > > Note that, unlike most Beeminder contracts, this one seems relatively easy to enforce (hard to cheat). “Did you go to the doctor yet? Yes or no.” Harder to lie, or round your weight down, or whatever. > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > > > > > Oh, because a commitment to another person is completely different > > > > > than a commitment to my past self. That past self doesn’t even really > > > > > exist anymore. Who the hell cares what he thinks? > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:43, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you have any more problem paying the fine on this contract than on any other Beeminder contract you’ve done? > > > > > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you get yourself to take the fine seriously? My future self > > > > > > > just rolls his eyes at me and says screw that. Or maybe he feels bad > > > > > > > about it but he’s certainly not going to do something so immediately > > > > > > > painful as pay a fine. Maybe tomorrow he’ll pay it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Serious question.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:21, Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just fine yourself $2 if you procrastinate one day, $4 for two days, > > > > > > > > $8 for three days, $16 for four days, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You’ll do it within a week. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here’s a classic example of akrasia. You really need to see the doctor > > > > > > > > > or the dentist (or your lawyer, etc etc) soon (or maybe just > > > > > > > > > soon-ish). But each successive day you don’t – after all, it’s > > > > > > > > > literally true that one more day won’t matter. But a year matters a > > > > > > > > > lot, and that’s just 365 of those one-more-days in a row. How do you > > > > > > > > > akratics deal with that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > – > > > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > > > > > – > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > – > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312/12 "2011-07-19T19:10:03Z")
From: Melanie Reeves Wicklow [melzafish@gmail.com](mailto:melzafish@gmail.com) Date: Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 18:28 Subject: Re: one-more-day syndrome I procrastinate terribly with that kind of stuff yet I’m all about being organized and getting the todo in my phone, on my calendar on my phone, etc. For me, I have a hard time concentrating on and just simply doing little to do’s when my head is swimming and I don’t feel like my life is organized. I need to start from a clean, clear, organized base to actually conquer the little to do’s like that … or at least that’s the excuse I make to put it off another day. Something quick and easy that forces me to just freakin’ do it would be valuable … though, eventually, like David, the ridiculousness of putting something that easy off motivates me to finally do it and it’s usually still within a somewhat reasonable amount of time. But there has to be no decision making involved. The amount to risk has to be set and it has to be as easy as making a calendar entry. Do this by this date or risk the already decided amount of money per day. On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > Nice! > If stickK had an API I would say it would be worth building this on > top of stickK. > Since it doesn’t I think this might make sense for Beeminder to do, if > we’re convinced this is valuable. > > David Reiley asks if it’s really akrasia or just a faulty to-do list. > To me it feels like the former; I’ve tried a lot of to-do list tricks. > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 17:26, Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) wrote: > > > I was just at this “Behavioral Economics and Health” symposium at Penn > > and met the StickK CEO (David, he said that he knew that you knew > > Karlan and Ayres). Anyway, after this I went to StickK to see how hard > > it is to set up a contract. It was really easy - they have these > > templates for common goals (e.g. weight loss) that boil it down to a > > few questions. The longest part was entering the credit card, but once > > they have that, you can make new contracts in about a minute. These > > kind of “Do It or Double Down” contracts could be a special template, > > and be really easy to set up (When does the penalty start? Who is the > > referee? Done). > > > > However, it is true that since seeing the doctor is little more than > > the ‘next action’ of picking up the phone to make an appointment (\*), > > then you would indeed just get it done before even making a contract. > > > > Sooo, what you need is to tie it to the calendar entry. You set a > > calendar entry far in the future (which is low cost because it is easy > > to make promises in the future), and once that date passes if you > > don’t check off the alert as “completed”, the doubling down begins > > automatically. Requires your credit card to be already in the system. > > If more palatable, it can begin with one penny (it still reaches $10 > > million in a month). > > > > (\*) Example taken from Getting Things Done > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:09 PM, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > > > Is this really an akrasia thing? Or is this just difficulty paying attention, and organizing one’s to-do list to make the soon-overdue task increasingly important? > > > > > > David > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > > > Yeah, good point. (But Dan is an extraordinary akratic in that I think > > > > he actually can self-enforce.) > > > > This kind of a binary commitment doesn’t seem so well-suited to > > > > Beeminder and a yellow brick road. > > > > And stickK seems way too high-overhead for simple things like this. > > > > (It’s easier to just freaking call the doctor than to set up a stickK > > > > contract.) > > > > > > > > I need something like integrated into my calendar where I say I’m > > > > going to call the doctor by this date and everything with the penalty > > > > (I like Dan’s idea of starting with a dollar and doubling each day) is > > > > automatic. > > > > > > > > (Btw, there aren’t many of you on this list yet. You’re kind of the > > > > super elite as far as the akrasia aspect of Beeminder is concerned, so > > > > I’m especially eager to hear what you all think of the idea of a more > > > > streamlined way to self-bind on trivial things like calling the > > > > doctor.) > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:50, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > So just set up the fine contract with another person. I figured that was implicit in Dan’s proposal. > > > > > > > > > > Note that, unlike most Beeminder contracts, this one seems relatively easy to enforce (hard to cheat). “Did you go to the doctor yet? Yes or no.” Harder to lie, or round your weight down, or whatever. > > > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, because a commitment to another person is completely different > > > > > > than a commitment to my past self. That past self doesn’t even really > > > > > > exist anymore. Who the hell cares what he thinks? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:43, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you have any more problem paying the fine on this contract than on any other Beeminder contract you’ve done? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you get yourself to take the fine seriously? My future self > > > > > > > > just rolls his eyes at me and says screw that. Or maybe he feels bad > > > > > > > > about it but he’s certainly not going to do something so immediately > > > > > > > > painful as pay a fine. Maybe tomorrow he’ll pay it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Serious question.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:21, Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just fine yourself $2 if you procrastinate one day, $4 for two days, > > > > > > > > > $8 for three days, $16 for four days, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You’ll do it within a week. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here’s a classic example of akrasia. You really need to see the doctor > > > > > > > > > > or the dentist (or your lawyer, etc etc) soon (or maybe just > > > > > > > > > > soon-ish). But each successive day you don’t – after all, it’s > > > > > > > > > > literally true that one more day won’t matter. But a year matters a > > > > > > > > > > lot, and that’s just 365 of those one-more-days in a row. How do you > > > > > > > > > > akratics deal with that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > > > > > > > – > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > – > > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – Melanie Reeves Wicklow > **[MelzaFit](http://melzafit.com)** > > MelzaFit personal training 707-853-2831 – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Reeves](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/daniel_reeves/32/707_2.png) [@Daniel\_Reeves](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Daniel_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/one-more-day-syndrome/1312/13 "2011-07-19T19:10:22Z")
From: Bethany M. Soule [bsoule@gmail.com](mailto:bsoule@gmail.com) Date: Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 13:55 Subject: Re: one-more-day syndrome D and I used to share a google calendar that we called the “realified deadlines” calendar. Problem was we never came up with a way to realify the deadlines we set on it… But I love Dan’s idea about doubling an initially small penalty each day that passes without doing the thing. We should revive our shared calendar and set up a blanket contract on it such that any items we put on the calendar are subject to the doubling fines rule. Then once we agree to that and decide on a recipient of the money, realifying deadlines becomes as simple as putting items on the calendar (which for me admittedly is still a not insignificant hurdle, but a lot smaller). B On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 18:28, Melanie Reeves Wicklow [melzafish@gmail.com](mailto:melzafish@gmail.com) wrote: > I procrastinate terribly with that kind of stuff yet I’m all about > being organized and getting the todo in my phone, on my calendar on my > phone, etc. For me, I have a hard time concentrating on and just > simply doing little to do’s when my head is swimming and I don’t feel > like my life is organized. I need to start from a clean, clear, > organized base to actually conquer the little to do’s like that … or > at least that’s the excuse I make to put it off another day. > Something quick and easy that forces me to just freakin’ do it would > be valuable … though, eventually, like David, the ridiculousness of > putting something that easy off motivates me to finally do it and it’s > usually still within a somewhat reasonable amount of time. But there > has to be no decision making involved. The amount to risk has to be > set and it has to be as easy as making a calendar entry. Do this by > this date or risk the already decided amount of money per day. > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > > > Nice! > > If stickK had an API I would say it would be worth building this on > > top of stickK. > > Since it doesn’t I think this might make sense for Beeminder to do, if > > we’re convinced this is valuable. > > > > David Reiley asks if it’s really akrasia or just a faulty to-do list. > > To me it feels like the former; I’ve tried a lot of to-do list tricks. > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 17:26, Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) wrote: > > > > > I was just at this “Behavioral Economics and Health” symposium at Penn > > > and met the StickK CEO (David, he said that he knew that you knew > > > Karlan and Ayres). Anyway, after this I went to StickK to see how hard > > > it is to set up a contract. It was really easy - they have these > > > templates for common goals (e.g. weight loss) that boil it down to a > > > few questions. The longest part was entering the credit card, but once > > > they have that, you can make new contracts in about a minute. These > > > kind of “Do It or Double Down” contracts could be a special template, > > > and be really easy to set up (When does the penalty start? Who is the > > > referee? Done). > > > > > > However, it is true that since seeing the doctor is little more than > > > the ‘next action’ of picking up the phone to make an appointment (\*), > > > then you would indeed just get it done before even making a contract. > > > > > > Sooo, what you need is to tie it to the calendar entry. You set a > > > calendar entry far in the future (which is low cost because it is easy > > > to make promises in the future), and once that date passes if you > > > don’t check off the alert as “completed”, the doubling down begins > > > automatically. Requires your credit card to be already in the system. > > > If more palatable, it can begin with one penny (it still reaches $10 > > > million in a month). > > > > > > (\*) Example taken from Getting Things Done > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:09 PM, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > > > > > Is this really an akrasia thing? Or is this just difficulty paying attention, and organizing one’s to-do list to make the soon-overdue task increasingly important? > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yeah, good point. (But Dan is an extraordinary akratic in that I think > > > > > he actually can self-enforce.) > > > > > This kind of a binary commitment doesn’t seem so well-suited to > > > > > Beeminder and a yellow brick road. > > > > > And stickK seems way too high-overhead for simple things like this. > > > > > (It’s easier to just freaking call the doctor than to set up a stickK > > > > > contract.) > > > > > > > > > > I need something like integrated into my calendar where I say I’m > > > > > going to call the doctor by this date and everything with the penalty > > > > > (I like Dan’s idea of starting with a dollar and doubling each day) is > > > > > automatic. > > > > > > > > > > (Btw, there aren’t many of you on this list yet. You’re kind of the > > > > > super elite as far as the akrasia aspect of Beeminder is concerned, so > > > > > I’m especially eager to hear what you all think of the idea of a more > > > > > streamlined way to self-bind on trivial things like calling the > > > > > doctor.) > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:50, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > So just set up the fine contract with another person. I figured that was implicit in Dan’s proposal. > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that, unlike most Beeminder contracts, this one seems relatively easy to enforce (hard to cheat). “Did you go to the doctor yet? Yes or no.” Harder to lie, or round your weight down, or whatever. > > > > > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, because a commitment to another person is completely different > > > > > > > than a commitment to my past self. That past self doesn’t even really > > > > > > > exist anymore. Who the hell cares what he thinks? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:43, David Reiley [david@davidreiley.com](mailto:david@davidreiley.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you have any more problem paying the fine on this contract than on any other Beeminder contract you’ve done? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you get yourself to take the fine seriously? My future self > > > > > > > > > just rolls his eyes at me and says screw that. Or maybe he feels bad > > > > > > > > > about it but he’s certainly not going to do something so immediately > > > > > > > > > painful as pay a fine. Maybe tomorrow he’ll pay it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Serious question.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 16:21, Dan Goldstein [dan@dangoldstein.com](mailto:dan@dangoldstein.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just fine yourself $2 if you procrastinate one day, $4 for two days, > > > > > > > > > > $8 for three days, $16 for four days, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You’ll do it within a week. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@umich.edu](mailto:dreeves@umich.edu) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here’s a classic example of akrasia. You really need to see the doctor > > > > > > > > > > > or the dentist (or your lawyer, etc etc) soon (or maybe just > > > > > > > > > > > soon-ish). But each successive day you don’t – after all, it’s > > > > > > > > > > > literally true that one more day won’t matter. But a year matters a > > > > > > > > > > > lot, and that’s just 365 of those one-more-days in a row. How do you > > > > > > > > > > > akratics deal with that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > > > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > > > > > – > > > > My home page: [http://www.davidreiley.com](http://www.davidreiley.com) > > > > – > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > – > Melanie Reeves Wicklow > [http://MelzaFit.com](http://MelzaFit.com) > 707-853-2831 – What are you kibotzing on? > **[Beeminder](https://www.beeminder.com/)** > > Goal tracking and commitment contracts – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Follow the Yellow Brick Road – [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com)