# progressive goals **URL:** \ **Category:** uncategorized\ **Created:** [March 30, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494 "2014-03-30T23:30:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jake\_Hofman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/jake_hofman/32/687_2.png) [@Jake\_Hofman](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Jake_Hofman)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/1 "2014-03-30T23:30:34Z")
hi all, has anyone implemented a goal that starts at an easy rate and automatically progresses to a higher target rate? for instance, let’s say i’d like to work my way up to flossing once a day, but right now i’d be happy with once a week. i’m pretty sure i’ll fail if i shoot for the moon out of the gate, but have some confidence that i can slowly build up to it. currently i do this type of thing manually, by starting with a small-sloping road and gradually increasing it as time goes on, but i’d like to be able to set this up when i create the goal by just specifying “start at rate r\_1 and get to rate r\_2 by week T” a constant rate of increase on the weekly rate would correspond to a parabolic road, but that seems wrong in the sense that it doesn’t have the right long term behavior, as it just keeps increasing. maybe something more like a negative exponential build up to the final target? ``` r(t) = (r_2 - r_1) * (1 - e^(-t/T)) + r_1 ``` curious about any thoughts people might have on on this and whether others would be interested in such a feature. best, jake – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![dreev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/dreev/32/4311_2.png) [@dreev](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/dreev)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/2 "2014-03-31T02:36:29Z")
Thanks for proposing this, Jake! This could be pretty cool as long as it’s relegated to Terrifyingly Advanced settings. It happens somewhat often that someone will assume that that’s what “rate” in the road dial currently refers to, which leads to all manner of confusion. So we’d want to make sure the existence of this feature didn’t add to that confusion. Let me also try to talk you out of this. Is it really so onerous to adjust your road steepness weekly? I know it’s super elegant to have it be continuous [1] but there’s no actual value in sub-week granularity and it makes sense to reassess the steepness of your road weekly anyway. Finally, your formula doesn’t seem to reach r\_2 by time T. I guess I don’t see the problem with a parabolic road, where the steepness just increases linearly, and then abruptly stops increasing when it reaches the target rate, r\_2: r(t) = (r\_2-r\_1)/T \* t + r1 (Not that I’m agreeing that this feature is worth adding! Actually, if you think it is it would be great to add it to [uservoice.beeminder.com](http://uservoice.beeminder.com) and see if it gets upvotes. I’m delighted that you brought it up here regardless though!) [1] Did you know that we do have exponential roads already for things like weight loss where the slope is a function of the current y-value, like if you want to lose 1% of your body weight per week. You need a custom goal for that though, which is a premium feature: [premium – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/premium) (Let me emphasize that most people don’t need that and it does not let you do what Jake is proposing.) Btw, don’t actually try to lose 1% of your body weight per week unless you want to be crazy hardcore about it and probably be hungry all the time. 1% is what we consider the maximum healthy weight loss rate. More like 0.3% per week is what we recommend, which should require very minimal pain and suffering. On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Jake Hofman [jhofman@gmail.com](mailto:jhofman@gmail.com) wrote: > hi all, > > has anyone implemented a goal that starts at an easy rate and automatically progresses to a higher target rate? > > for instance, let’s say i’d like to work my way up to flossing once a day, but right now i’d be happy with once a week. i’m pretty sure i’ll fail if i shoot for the moon out of the gate, but have some confidence that i can slowly build up to it. > > currently i do this type of thing manually, by starting with a small-sloping road and gradually increasing it as time goes on, but i’d like to be able to set this up when i create the goal by just specifying “start at rate r\_1 and get to rate r\_2 by week T” > > a constant rate of increase on the weekly rate would correspond to a parabolic road, but that seems wrong in the sense that it doesn’t have the right long term behavior, as it just keeps increasing. maybe something more like a negative exponential build up to the final target? > > ``` > r(t) = (r_2 - r_1) * (1 - e^(-t/T)) + r_1 > > ``` > > curious about any thoughts people might have on on this and whether others would be interested in such a feature. > > best, > jake > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![Waldir\_Pimenta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/waldir_pimenta/32/665_2.png) [@Waldir\_Pimenta](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Waldir_Pimenta)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 11:48am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/3 "2014-03-31T11:48:29Z")
I had thought about this several times as well. Ramping up to a specific rate would be smoother, while currently you have a full week going at the current rate without accurate feedback unless the scale/units you’re using can be easily manipulated mentally. And then everything changes suddenly. Of course, one shouldn’t change the rate too drastically anyway, but it would be nice to have beeminder account for this in cases where it might be inevitable. I definitely wouldn’t say there wouldn’t be any value in a smoothly changing road rather than sharp inflection points. On Monday, March 31, 2014 3:36:29 AM UTC+1, Daniel Reeves wrote: > Thanks for proposing this, Jake! This could be pretty cool as long as > it’s relegated to Terrifyingly Advanced settings. It happens somewhat > often that someone will assume that that’s what “rate” in the road > dial currently refers to, which leads to all manner of confusion. So > we’d want to make sure the existence of this feature didn’t add to > that confusion. > > Let me also try to talk you out of this. Is it really so onerous to > adjust your road steepness weekly? I know it’s super elegant to have > it be continuous [1] but there’s no actual value in sub-week > granularity and it makes sense to reassess the steepness of your road > weekly anyway. > > Finally, your formula doesn’t seem to reach r\_2 by time T. I guess I > don’t see the problem with a parabolic road, where the steepness just > increases linearly, and then abruptly stops increasing when it reaches > the target rate, r\_2: > > r(t) = (r\_2-r\_1)/T \* t + r1 > > (Not that I’m agreeing that this feature is worth adding! Actually, if > you think it is it would be great to add it to [uservoice.beeminder.com](http://uservoice.beeminder.com) > and see if it gets upvotes. I’m delighted that you brought it up here > regardless though!) > > [1] Did you know that we do have exponential roads already for things > like weight loss where the slope is a function of the current y-value, > like if you want to lose 1% of your body weight per week. You need a > custom goal for that though, which is a premium feature: > [premium – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/premium) (Let me emphasize that most people don’t need > that and it does not let you do what Jake is proposing.) > > Btw, don’t actually try to lose 1% of your body weight per week unless > you want to be crazy hardcore about it and probably be hungry all the > time. 1% is what we consider the maximum healthy weight loss rate. > More like 0.3% per week is what we recommend, which should require > very minimal pain and suffering. > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Jake Hofman \<[jho...@gmail.com](mailto:jho...@gmail.com)\\> > wrote: > > > hi all, > > > > has anyone implemented a goal that starts at an easy rate and > > automatically progresses to a higher target rate? > > > > for instance, let’s say i’d like to work my way up to flossing once a > > day, but right now i’d be happy with once a week. i’m pretty sure i’ll fail > > if i shoot for the moon out of the gate, but have some confidence that i > > can slowly build up to it. > > > > currently i do this type of thing manually, by starting with a > > small-sloping road and gradually increasing it as time goes on, but i’d > > like to be able to set this up when i create the goal by just specifying > > “start at rate r\_1 and get to rate r\_2 by week T” > > > > a constant rate of increase on the weekly rate would correspond to a > > parabolic road, but that seems wrong in the sense that it doesn’t have the > > right long term behavior, as it just keeps increasing. maybe something more > > like a negative exponential build up to the final target? > > > > ``` > > r(t) = (r_2 - r_1) * (1 - e^(-t/T)) + r_1 > > > > ``` > > > > curious about any thoughts people might have on on this and whether > > others would be interested in such a feature. > > > > best, > > jake > > > > – > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > an email to [akratics+u...@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+u...@googlegroups.com) \. > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![amesha1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@amesha1](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/amesha1)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/4 "2014-03-31T12:45:51Z")
On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com)wrote: > Let me also try to talk you out of this. Is it really so onerous to > adjust your road steepness weekly? I know it’s super elegant to have > it be continuous [1] but there’s no actual value in sub-week > granularity and it makes sense to reassess the steepness of your road > weekly anyway. The obvious use case for this would be if you’re akratic about increasing the rate. You may find that you keep procrastinating on increasing the rate thinking you want to be “really sure” that you can handle the higher rate (I definitely do this), but if you could set an automatic rate increase so that afterwards the default is for the rate to increase without you doing anything, you would do that. – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Hofman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/jake_hofman/32/687_2.png) [@Jake\_Hofman](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Jake_Hofman)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/5 "2014-03-31T14:55:49Z")
thanks all for the replies. dan, i agree that it’s not all that much work to do this manually. that said, i still think it may be a worthwhile feature in the sense that i’d probably stick to a slowly increasing road without even realizing that i’m doing so, and in doing so get more out of my beeminding. and waldir, i’d of course be fine with a version that’s a weekly piecewise linear approximation to some non-linear road. as for the question of the shape of the road itself, the exponential won’t reach it, of course—i just used the engineer’s hack of getting (1-1/e) there, but that could be adjusted, of course (t → 2t or 3t). i thought the exponential might match my anecdotal evidence that it’s easy to make big initial gains, after which progress levels off. (e.g., i see a big boost in strength after a week or two of weight training, but then things slow down.) it could also be fun if there’s sort of a natural rate for getting to goals, as you point out for weight loss. this way a user could just come along and say “i’d like to weigh 180 pounds, eventually”, and you could suggest a never-expiring goal that will put them on track for that target with an appropriate time scale. (manual adjustments could happen after that for more advanced users, of course.) that said, you may be right that a parabolic shape is fine. or maybe the best shape varies by the type of goal. -j On Mar 31, 2014, at 8:45 AM, Adam Mesha [araizen@gmail.com](mailto:araizen@gmail.com) wrote: > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) wrote: > > Let me also try to talk you out of this. Is it really so onerous to > adjust your road steepness weekly? I know it’s super elegant to have > it be continuous [1] but there’s no actual value in sub-week > granularity and it makes sense to reassess the steepness of your road > weekly anyway. > > The obvious use case for this would be if you’re akratic about increasing the rate. You may find that you keep procrastinating on increasing the rate thinking you want to be “really sure” that you can handle the higher rate (I definitely do this), but if you could set an automatic rate increase so that afterwards the default is for the rate to increase without you doing anything, you would do that. > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Waldir\_Pimenta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/waldir_pimenta/32/665_2.png) [@Waldir\_Pimenta](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Waldir_Pimenta)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/6 "2014-03-31T17:31:09Z")
I’m not a very mathy person myself, but it seems to me that the exponential would be the ideal function to model such a curve, since its very definition is continuous growth. There has to be a way to obtain the exponential function that matches (is tangent to) the current line slope at the moment we change the rate (t=0) and whose slope is the intended new one at t=7 (using days as units of time here). I can intuitively see how it should be achievable by sliding and stretching the graph of the exponential function, but I have no idea how to obtain the parameters to tweak the exponential formula to do that mathematically. This also reminds me of the [acko.net](http://acko.net) article “To Infinity… And Beyond! [http://acko.net/blog/to-infinity-and-beyond/](http://acko.net/blog/to-infinity-and-beyond/)”; in the section “A Tug of War Between the Gods” there’s a slideshow, which, starting on slide 45, describes how joining line segments with plain circular arcs creates join points that aren’t as smooth as they may seem. Of course, the jerking effect is almost certainly imperceptible in the context of beeminder, so the smoothing procedure suggested there would be overkill, but it’s still a fairly interesting read, check it out if you haven’t before! On Monday, March 31, 2014 3:55:49 PM UTC+1, Jake Hofman wrote: > thanks all for the replies. > > dan, i agree that it’s not all that much work to do this manually. that > said, i still think it may be a worthwhile feature in the sense that i’d > probably stick to a slowly increasing road without even realizing that i’m > doing so, and in doing so get more out of my beeminding. > > and waldir, i’d of course be fine with a version that’s a weekly piecewise > linear approximation to some non-linear road. > > as for the question of the shape of the road itself, the exponential won’t > reach it, of course—i just used the engineer’s hack of getting (1-1/e) > there, but that could be adjusted, of course (t → 2t or 3t). i thought the > exponential might match my anecdotal evidence that it’s easy to make big > initial gains, after which progress levels off. (e.g., i see a big boost in > strength after a week or two of weight training, but then things slow > down.) > > it could also be fun if there’s sort of a natural rate for getting to > goals, as you point out for weight loss. this way a user could just come > along and say “i’d like to weigh 180 pounds, eventually”, and you could > suggest a never-expiring goal that will put them on track for that target > with an appropriate time scale. (manual adjustments could happen after that > for more advanced users, of course.) > > that said, you may be right that a parabolic shape is fine. or maybe the > best shape varies by the type of goal. > > -j > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 8:45 AM, Adam Mesha \<[ara...@gmail.com](mailto:ara...@gmail.com) \\> > wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Daniel Reeves \<[dre...@beeminder.com](mailto:dre...@beeminder.com)\\> > > wrote: > > > > Let me also try to talk you out of this. Is it really so onerous to > > adjust your road steepness weekly? I know it’s super elegant to have > > it be continuous [1] but there’s no actual value in sub-week > > granularity and it makes sense to reassess the steepness of your road > > weekly anyway. > > > > The obvious use case for this would be if you’re akratic about > > increasing the rate. You may find that you keep procrastinating on > > increasing the rate thinking you want to be “really sure” that you can > > handle the higher rate (I definitely do this), but if you could set an > > automatic rate increase so that afterwards the default is for the rate to > > increase without you doing anything, you would do that. > > > > – > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > an email to [akratics+u...@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+u...@googlegroups.com) \. > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Hofman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/jake_hofman/32/687_2.png) [@Jake\_Hofman](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Jake_Hofman)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/7 "2014-04-01T19:42:18Z")
btw, i’ve added the feature to uservoice here. please upvote if you’re interested. -j ``` http://beeminder.uservoice.com/forums/3011-general/suggestions/5713728-add-an-automatically-progressing-goal-feature ``` Add an “automatically progressing goal” feature This feature would allow a user to create a goal that automatically and gradually increases from a lower initial rate to a higher target rate. Inputs would be the initial rate, the final rate, and a time scale. The result would be a non-linear road that hits the target rate at the specified time. Preferably the schedule for increase (e.g., constant, decreasing, increasing, etc.) would be set automagically. For instance, let’s say I’d like to work my way up to flossing once a day, but right now I’d be happy with once a week. I’m pretty sure I’ll fail if I shoot for the moon out of the gate, but have some confidence that I can slowly build up to it. While you can do this manually, of course, this feature might help if you’re akratic about maintaining your goals. I’d probably stick to a slowly increasing goal without even realizing that I’m improving. – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Philip\_Hellyer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/philip_hellyer/32/675_2.png) [@Philip\_Hellyer](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Philip_Hellyer)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/8 "2014-04-01T19:51:55Z")
I’m sure that Essy has implemented something like this for her own purposes. iirc, her code sets the slope to the current actual average rate achieved. This has the effect of gradually ratcheting the road to match what you’re able to achieve, and to continue pushing the envelope every time you build up some safety buffer. Philip On 1 April 2014 20:42, Jake Hofman [jhofman@gmail.com](mailto:jhofman@gmail.com) wrote: > btw, i’ve added the feature to uservoice here. please upvote if you’re > interested. -j > > [Add an "automatically progressing goal" feature – Customer Feedback for Beeminder](http://beeminder.uservoice.com/forums/3011-general/suggestions/5713728-add-an-automatically-progressing-goal-feature) > > Add an “automatically progressing goal” feature > > This feature would allow a user to create a goal that automatically and > gradually increases from a lower initial rate to a higher target rate. > Inputs would be the initial rate, the final rate, and a time scale. The > result would be a non-linear road that hits the target rate at the > specified time. Preferably the schedule for increase (e.g., constant, > decreasing, increasing, etc.) would be set automagically. > > For instance, let’s say I’d like to work my way up to flossing once a day, > but right now I’d be happy with once a week. I’m pretty sure I’ll fail if I > shoot for the moon out of the gate, but have some confidence that I can > slowly build up to it. > > While you can do this manually, of course, this feature might help if > you’re akratic about maintaining your goals. I’d probably stick to a slowly > increasing goal without even realizing that I’m improving. > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Katherine\_Baxter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/839c29/32.png) [@Katherine\_Baxter](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Katherine_Baxter)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/9 "2014-04-01T20:17:57Z")
Wow, that sounds great. Essy, can you share? On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Philip Hellyer [philip@hellyer.net](mailto:philip@hellyer.net) wrote: > I’m sure that Essy has implemented something like this for her own > purposes. > > iirc, her code sets the slope to the current actual average rate achieved. > This has the effect of gradually ratcheting the road to match what you’re > able to achieve, and to continue pushing the envelope every time you build > up some safety buffer. > > Philip > > On 1 April 2014 20:42, Jake Hofman [jhofman@gmail.com](mailto:jhofman@gmail.com) wrote: > > > btw, i’ve added the feature to uservoice here. please upvote if you’re > > interested. -j > > > > [Add an "automatically progressing goal" feature – Customer Feedback for Beeminder](http://beeminder.uservoice.com/forums/3011-general/suggestions/5713728-add-an-automatically-progressing-goal-feature) > > > > Add an “automatically progressing goal” feature > > > > This feature would allow a user to create a goal that automatically and > > gradually increases from a lower initial rate to a higher target rate. > > Inputs would be the initial rate, the final rate, and a time scale. The > > result would be a non-linear road that hits the target rate at the > > specified time. Preferably the schedule for increase (e.g., constant, > > decreasing, increasing, etc.) would be set automagically. > > > > For instance, let’s say I’d like to work my way up to flossing once a > > day, but right now I’d be happy with once a week. I’m pretty sure I’ll fail > > if I shoot for the moon out of the gate, but have some confidence that I > > can slowly build up to it. > > > > While you can do this manually, of course, this feature might help if > > you’re akratic about maintaining your goals. I’d probably stick to a slowly > > increasing goal without even realizing that I’m improving. > > > > – > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Hofman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/jake_hofman/32/687_2.png) [@Jake\_Hofman](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Jake_Hofman)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/10 "2014-04-02T17:20:08Z")
that does sound great—curious to learn more about it. -j On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Katherine Baxter [baxter.katherine@gmail.com](mailto:baxter.katherine@gmail.com) wrote: > Wow, that sounds great. Essy, can you share? > > On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Philip Hellyer [philip@hellyer.net](mailto:philip@hellyer.net) wrote: > > > I’m sure that Essy has implemented something like this for her own > > purposes. > > > > iirc, her code sets the slope to the current actual average rate achieved. > > This has the effect of gradually ratcheting the road to match what you’re > > able to achieve, and to continue pushing the envelope every time you build > > up some safety buffer. > > > > Philip > > > > On 1 April 2014 20:42, Jake Hofman [jhofman@gmail.com](mailto:jhofman@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > btw, i’ve added the feature to uservoice here. please upvote if you’re > > > interested. -j > > > > > > [Add an "automatically progressing goal" feature – Customer Feedback for Beeminder](http://beeminder.uservoice.com/forums/3011-general/suggestions/5713728-add-an-automatically-progressing-goal-feature) > > > > > > Add an “automatically progressing goal” feature > > > > > > This feature would allow a user to create a goal that automatically and > > > gradually increases from a lower initial rate to a higher target rate. > > > Inputs would be the initial rate, the final rate, and a time scale. The > > > result would be a non-linear road that hits the target rate at the specified > > > time. Preferably the schedule for increase (e.g., constant, decreasing, > > > increasing, etc.) would be set automagically. > > > > > > For instance, let’s say I’d like to work my way up to flossing once a > > > day, but right now I’d be happy with once a week. I’m pretty sure I’ll fail > > > if I shoot for the moon out of the gate, but have some confidence that I can > > > slowly build up to it. > > > > > > While you can do this manually, of course, this feature might help if > > > you’re akratic about maintaining your goals. I’d probably stick to a slowly > > > increasing goal without even realizing that I’m improving. > > > > > > – > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > > > – > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![David\_Ernst](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/david_ernst/32/681_2.png) [@David\_Ernst](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/David_Ernst)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/11 "2014-04-02T23:53:58Z")
Hi Akratics, I’ve been thinking about something along these lines myself, albeit less sophisticated. Let me share my current ideas in case it is of any help, and I’m sure you all may have great suggestions. _My long-term goal is to get back into a habit of an hour of meditation_, twice a day. For the past the few months it’s been inconsistent, just about never more than one hour, once per week. When I first learned about Beeminder – not more than a month or two ago – meditation was the first thing I knew I wanted to personally use it for, b/c in my experience, when I’m good on this, everything else follows. Lack of ‘presence’ feels like a sort of gateway akrasia, if you will 🙂 So I’ve had a Beemind “total hours sitting”. That’s sort of working. I set it for 1 hour per week, and for the most part that’s pretty much what I’ve been doing: one long session, spaced a week apart. But I’d rather be more frequent & consistent, even if it’s a much smaller magnitude. So now I’m thinking of another way to attack this: Again, the end goal is twice daily hour-long sessions. Day 1 will be 1 minute of meditation. Easy. Day 2 should be 2 minutes. Day 3? 3 minutes. And then continue to add another minute each day. (Not yet sure how to cross the chasm from once to twice daily…) So I suppose this goal is “Grow Daily Meditation Practice”. I hope to input a 1 each day. And if I need to check what amount I’m up to, the cumulative Y-axis will track “Minutes of Daily Practice”. Effectively, this just Beeminding the derivative of total minutes sat, such that this Beemind follows a constant rate and yet my “true goal” if you will, is auto-increasing. Is that clear? Could this same approach apply to your flossing goal, Jake? Perhaps you could Do-Less-beemind the number of days in between flossing sessions. Haven’t fully thought this out so perhaps it has some kinks. On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 1:20:08 PM UTC-4, Jake Hofman wrote: > that does sound great—curious to learn more about it. -j > > On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Katherine Baxter > \<[baxter.k...@gmail.com](mailto:baxter.k...@gmail.com) \\> wrote: > > > Wow, that sounds great. Essy, can you share? > > > > On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Philip Hellyer \<[phi...@hellyer.net](mailto:phi...@hellyer.net)\\> > > wrote: > > > > > I’m sure that Essy has implemented something like this for her own > > > purposes. > > > > > > iirc, her code sets the slope to the current actual average rate > > > achieved. > > > This has the effect of gradually ratcheting the road to match what > > > you’re > > > able to achieve, and to continue pushing the envelope every time you > > > build > > > up some safety buffer. > > > > > > Philip > > > > > > On 1 April 2014 20:42, Jake Hofman \<[jho...@gmail.com](mailto:jho...@gmail.com) \\> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > btw, i’ve added the feature to uservoice here. please upvote if you’re > > > > interested. -j > > [Add an "automatically progressing goal" feature – Customer Feedback for Beeminder](http://beeminder.uservoice.com/forums/3011-general/suggestions/5713728-add-an-automatically-progressing-goal-feature) > > > > > Add an “automatically progressing goal” feature > > > > > > > > This feature would allow a user to create a goal that automatically > > > > and > > > > gradually increases from a lower initial rate to a higher target rate. > > > > Inputs would be the initial rate, the final rate, and a time scale. > > > > The > > > > result would be a non-linear road that hits the target rate at the > > > > specified > > > > time. Preferably the schedule for increase (e.g., constant, > > > > decreasing, > > > > increasing, etc.) would be set automagically. > > > > > > > > For instance, let’s say I’d like to work my way up to flossing once a > > > > day, but right now I’d be happy with once a week. I’m pretty sure I’ll > > > > fail > > > > if I shoot for the moon out of the gate, but have some confidence that > > > > I can > > > > slowly build up to it. > > > > > > > > While you can do this manually, of course, this feature might help if > > > > you’re akratic about maintaining your goals. I’d probably stick to a > > > > slowly > > > > increasing goal without even realizing that I’m improving. > > > > > > > > – > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups > > > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > > > an > > > > email to [akratics+u...@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+u...@googlegroups.com) \. > > > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > > > > > – > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups > > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > > an > > > email to [akratics+u...@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+u...@googlegroups.com) \. > > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > > > – > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > an > > email to [akratics+u...@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+u...@googlegroups.com) \. > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Katherine\_Baxter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/839c29/32.png) [@Katherine\_Baxter](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Katherine_Baxter)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/12 "2014-04-03T00:58:33Z")
For meditation, the best thing I’ve found is to beemind both the frequency and the duration in 2 separate graphs. Then I can set limits like “meditate at least 5 sessions a week, and at least 2 hours a week total.” That doesn’t help with increasing the amount over time, but it is a framework that seems to work well for me. On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 7:53 PM, David Ernst [david@ernsts.us](mailto:david@ernsts.us) wrote: > Hi Akratics, > > I’ve been thinking about something along these lines myself, albeit less > sophisticated. Let me share my current ideas in case it is of any help, and > I’m sure you all may have great suggestions. > > _My long-term goal is to get back into a habit of an hour of meditation_, > twice a day. For the past the few months it’s been inconsistent, just about > never more than one hour, once per week. When I first learned about > Beeminder – not more than a month or two ago – meditation was the first > thing I knew I wanted to personally use it for, b/c in my experience, when > I’m good on this, everything else follows. Lack of ‘presence’ feels like a > sort of gateway akrasia, if you will 🙂 > > So I’ve had a Beemind “total hours sitting”. That’s sort of working. I set > it for 1 hour per week, and for the most part that’s pretty much what I’ve > been doing: one long session, spaced a week apart. > > But I’d rather be more frequent & consistent, even if it’s a much smaller > magnitude. > > So now I’m thinking of another way to attack this: > > Again, the end goal is twice daily hour-long sessions. > Day 1 will be 1 minute of meditation. Easy. > Day 2 should be 2 minutes. Day 3? 3 minutes. And then continue to add > another minute each day. (Not yet sure how to cross the chasm from once to > twice daily…) > > So I suppose this goal is “Grow Daily Meditation Practice”. I hope to > input a 1 each day. And if I need to check what amount I’m up to, the > cumulative Y-axis will track “Minutes of Daily Practice”. Effectively, this > just Beeminding the derivative of total minutes sat, such that this Beemind > follows a constant rate and yet my “true goal” if you will, is > auto-increasing. > > Is that clear? > > Could this same approach apply to your flossing goal, Jake? Perhaps you > could Do-Less-beemind the number of days in between flossing sessions. > Haven’t fully thought this out so perhaps it has some kinks. > > On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 1:20:08 PM UTC-4, Jake Hofman wrote: > > > that does sound great—curious to learn more about it. -j > > > > On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Katherine Baxter > > [baxter.k...@gmail.com](mailto:baxter.k...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > Wow, that sounds great. Essy, can you share? > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Philip Hellyer [phi...@hellyer.net](mailto:phi...@hellyer.net) > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I’m sure that Essy has implemented something like this for her own > > > > purposes. > > > > > > > > iirc, her code sets the slope to the current actual average rate > > > > achieved. > > > > This has the effect of gradually ratcheting the road to match what > > > > you’re > > > > able to achieve, and to continue pushing the envelope every time you > > > > build > > > > up some safety buffer. > > > > > > > > Philip > > > > > > > > On 1 April 2014 20:42, Jake Hofman [jho...@gmail.com](mailto:jho...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > btw, i’ve added the feature to uservoice here. please upvote if > > > > > you’re > > > > > interested. -j > > > > > > > > > > [General: Top (348 ideas) – Customer Feedback for Beeminder](http://beeminder.uservoice.com/forums/3011-general/) > > > > > suggestions/5713728-add-an-automatically-progressing-goal-feature > > > > > > > > > > Add an “automatically progressing goal” feature > > > > > > > > > > This feature would allow a user to create a goal that automatically > > > > > and > > > > > gradually increases from a lower initial rate to a higher target > > > > > rate. > > > > > Inputs would be the initial rate, the final rate, and a time scale. > > > > > The > > > > > result would be a non-linear road that hits the target rate at the > > > > > specified > > > > > time. Preferably the schedule for increase (e.g., constant, > > > > > decreasing, > > > > > increasing, etc.) would be set automagically. > > > > > > > > > > For instance, let’s say I’d like to work my way up to flossing once a > > > > > day, but right now I’d be happy with once a week. I’m pretty sure > > > > > I’ll fail > > > > > if I shoot for the moon out of the gate, but have some confidence > > > > > that I can > > > > > slowly build up to it. > > > > > > > > > > While you can do this manually, of course, this feature might help if > > > > > you’re akratic about maintaining your goals. I’d probably stick to a > > > > > slowly > > > > > increasing goal without even realizing that I’m improving. > > > > > > > > > > – > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > > Groups > > > > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > > > > > send an > > > > > email to [akratics+u...@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+u...@googlegroups.com). > > > > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > > > > > > > – > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups > > > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > > > an > > > > email to [akratics+u...@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+u...@googlegroups.com). > > > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > > > > > – > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups > > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > > an > > > email to [akratics+u...@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+u...@googlegroups.com). > > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Hofman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/jake_hofman/32/687_2.png) [@Jake\_Hofman](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Jake_Hofman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/13 "2014-04-03T01:11:12Z")
On Apr 2, 2014, at 7:53 PM, David Ernst [david@ernsts.us](mailto:david@ernsts.us) wrote: > So I suppose this goal is “Grow Daily Meditation Practice”. I hope to input a 1 each day. And if I need to check what amount I’m up to, the cumulative Y-axis will track “Minutes of Daily Practice”. Effectively, this just Beeminding the derivative of total minutes sat, such that this Beemind follows a constant rate and yet my “true goal” if you will, is auto-increasing. > > Is that clear? > > Could this same approach apply to your flossing goal, Jake? Perhaps you could Do-Less-beemind the number of days in between flossing sessions. Haven’t fully thought this out so perhaps it has some kinks. yes—this makes sense and is right in line with what i’m thinking about. it seems easier to slowly build up to the desired rate instead of just jumping in right away. -j – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Alexander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/jeff_alexander/32/680_2.png) [@Jeff\_Alexander](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Jeff_Alexander)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/14 "2014-04-03T12:40:13Z")
Jake, you’re sure you’d fail at flossing more regularly independent of Pledge amount? I feel like a high enough Pledge could get you to make a habit of flossing without needing the auto-grow goal tech. But of course I’m mostly generalizing from N=1. It’s hard for me to imagine being so averse/akratic that losing $100 or $1,000 or (5% \* annual income) wouldn’t make one floss. Maybe a severely depressed person? But I’m tangenting. On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 9:11 PM, Jake Hofman [jhofman@gmail.com](mailto:jhofman@gmail.com) wrote: > On Apr 2, 2014, at 7:53 PM, David Ernst [david@ernsts.us](mailto:david@ernsts.us) wrote: > > > So I suppose this goal is “Grow Daily Meditation Practice”. I hope to > > input a 1 each day. And if I need to check what amount I’m up to, the > > cumulative Y-axis will track “Minutes of Daily Practice”. Effectively, this > > just Beeminding the derivative of total minutes sat, such that this Beemind > > follows a constant rate and yet my “true goal” if you will, is > > auto-increasing. > > > > Is that clear? > > > > Could this same approach apply to your flossing goal, Jake? Perhaps you > > could Do-Less-beemind the number of days in between flossing sessions. > > Haven’t fully thought this out so perhaps it has some kinks. > > yes—this makes sense and is right in line with what i’m thinking about. > > it seems easier to slowly build up to the desired rate instead of just > jumping in right away. > > -j > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – Jeff Medina “Do you want to live forever?” “Dunno. Ask me again in five hundred years.” (_Guards! Guards!_, Terry Pratchett) – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Hofman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/jake_hofman/32/687_2.png) [@Jake\_Hofman](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Jake_Hofman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/15 "2014-04-03T15:29:21Z")
hey jeff, you’re right. a sufficiently high enough pledge would probably work. i’m just being chicken on actually putting the money down. 🙂 i also don’t quite know what my value for flossing every day is. but in general i prefer to set reachable goals and slowly improve than fail a lot to get to the appropriate pledge. -j On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Jeff Medina [analyticphilosophy@gmail.com](mailto:analyticphilosophy@gmail.com) wrote: > Jake, you’re sure you’d fail at flossing more regularly independent of > Pledge amount? I feel like a high enough Pledge could get you to make a > habit of flossing without needing the auto-grow goal tech. But of course I’m > mostly generalizing from N=1. It’s hard for me to imagine being so > averse/akratic that losing $100 or $1,000 or (5% \* annual income) wouldn’t > make one floss. Maybe a severely depressed person? But I’m tangenting. > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 9:11 PM, Jake Hofman [jhofman@gmail.com](mailto:jhofman@gmail.com) wrote: > > > On Apr 2, 2014, at 7:53 PM, David Ernst [david@ernsts.us](mailto:david@ernsts.us) wrote: > > > > > So I suppose this goal is “Grow Daily Meditation Practice”. I hope to > > > input a 1 each day. And if I need to check what amount I’m up to, the > > > cumulative Y-axis will track “Minutes of Daily Practice”. Effectively, this > > > just Beeminding the derivative of total minutes sat, such that this Beemind > > > follows a constant rate and yet my “true goal” if you will, is > > > auto-increasing. > > > > > > Is that clear? > > > > > > Could this same approach apply to your flossing goal, Jake? Perhaps you > > > could Do-Less-beemind the number of days in between flossing sessions. > > > Haven’t fully thought this out so perhaps it has some kinks. > > > > yes—this makes sense and is right in line with what i’m thinking about. > > > > it seems easier to slowly build up to the desired rate instead of just > > jumping in right away. > > > > -j > > > > – > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > – > Jeff Medina > > “Do you want to live forever?” > “Dunno. Ask me again in five hundred years.” > (_Guards! Guards!_, Terry Pratchett) > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Essentiae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Essentiae](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Essentiae)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/16 "2014-04-12T20:38:59Z")
Hi all, Sorry to have not had time to respond until now. I have my goals set up so that those that I tag with “AD” (for auto-dial) will automatically change the rate to the average I’ve recorded so far. This way, I can start my goal with a flat road and just record when I do whatever it is I’m tracking. Then, I use the auto-dial either every day or every week or whatever, depending on how keen I’m feeling, and it forces me to keep up ~at least~ the level that I’ve done in the past. This way, I can have a ton of goals\*\* all set flat and improve, bit by bit, knowing that the goal I’ve set is possible, because I’ve already done it. Plus, since it happens from time to time that I do a little better than expected, it keeps me improving. It makes for nice, slow progress. I think it’s especially awesome for those really hard to change habits. The real benefit to this is that it keeps you getting better, nice and slow, and makes regression a lot less likely. The goals that are binary (either you did it or you didn’t, and so are reporting a 1 or a 0) tend to change a little more quickly, because if your road rate get’s changed to 2.4 per week due to an average, that’s functionally a 3 (since you will need to record a “1” on the 3rd day.) But that hasn’t bothered me. Goals where you’re recording minutes or miles or calories or whatever go more slowly, but every time you do a little better, you are challenging your future self to keep up. And you never have to match your peak, only your average. (As time goes on, this changes more slowly, of course, but you can always add in a section of road that’s harder and then tag your road differently for a while to make it even harder. (Or use the “take a break” feature to do just the opposite.) I’m going to attach my code in the next post, and I’ll also send it to the Beeminder folks so they can tweak it and improve it if they want to. It’s not very good code, but it works. YMMV (I should warn you that sometimes it records the “do less” goals as having fewer days on track than they have, which messes with the averages. I’m not sure why this is and I haven’t had time to check if it’s a time-of-day thing or something else. This winds up leaving too much space for the do-less goals sometimes, but I haven’t the time to fix it right now, I’m afraid. I hope this turns out to be useful to some of you. Essy (\*\*I have 57 at the moment, but not all use this and not all are dialled above a flat line. A couple are sort of waiting until I’m ready, and then I’ll just add the tag to them and they’ll add themselves to the mix that way .) On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 4:17:57 PM UTC-4, Katherine Baxter wrote: > Wow, that sounds great. Essy, can you share? > > On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Philip Hellyer \<[phi...@hellyer.net](mailto:phi...@hellyer.net)\ > > > wrote: > > > I’m sure that Essy has implemented something like this for her own > > purposes. > > > > iirc, her code sets the slope to the current actual average rate > > achieved. This has the effect of gradually ratcheting the road to match > > what you’re able to achieve, and to continue pushing the envelope every > > time you build up some safety buffer. > > > > Philip > > > > On 1 April 2014 20:42, Jake Hofman \<[jho...@gmail.com](mailto:jho...@gmail.com) \\>wrote: > > > > > btw, i’ve added the feature to uservoice here. please upvote if you’re > > > interested. -j > > > > > > [Add an "automatically progressing goal" feature – Customer Feedback for Beeminder](http://beeminder.uservoice.com/forums/3011-general/suggestions/5713728-add-an-automatically-progressing-goal-feature) > > > > > > Add an “automatically progressing goal” feature > > > > > > This feature would allow a user to create a goal that automatically and > > > gradually increases from a lower initial rate to a higher target rate. > > > Inputs would be the initial rate, the final rate, and a time scale. The > > > result would be a non-linear road that hits the target rate at the > > > specified time. Preferably the schedule for increase (e.g., constant, > > > decreasing, increasing, etc.) would be set automagically. > > > > > > For instance, let’s say I’d like to work my way up to flossing once a > > > day, but right now I’d be happy with once a week. I’m pretty sure I’ll fail > > > if I shoot for the moon out of the gate, but have some confidence that I > > > can slowly build up to it. > > > > > > While you can do this manually, of course, this feature might help if > > > you’re akratic about maintaining your goals. I’d probably stick to a slowly > > > increasing goal without even realizing that I’m improving. > > > > > > – > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > > an email to [akratics+u...@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+u...@googlegroups.com) \. > > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > > > – > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [akratics+u...@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+u...@googlegroups.com) \. > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Essentiae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Essentiae](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Essentiae)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/17 "2014-04-12T21:46:23Z")
Okay, so, I had to do a few creative things because I don’t really know what I’m doing. For one, there’s no tagging and I don’t think the goal statement is accessible through the API, so I use creative goal naming to tag my goals. Here’s how it works: Workout sub-goals, like particular exercises, are tagged with "(Workout)" at the end of the goal’s title [e.g.: “Crunch (Workout)”]. The slug doesn’t matter. These goals are all automatically added to the list of autodialed goals that will increase in difficulty over time. Also, I store them all on the back burner (below the line, using the minus symbol in the top right of the goal’s chart on the goal page) to keep them from cluttering things up. I keep them set to $0 (because there are 16 of them!). But, if they derail, I _can_ choose to bump them up to $5 when putting them back on track, and then start a countdown back to $0 to ensure that I don’t fall off of them again for the following week. (I usually don’t, though, since there’s a meta-goal called “Strength Training” that covers those and that is attached to a $ contract.) Okay, now the other goals: They are labelled things like: Work Hours dd wk oA FY and each goal has four pairs of letters to tag them with. * * * ## The first pair is either “dd” or "AD" dd = don’t dial AD = auto-dial (these are the ones that will have the roads auto-dialed to the average so far when I click the link to do so) * * * The second pair is one of “am”, “wk”, “pm”, or "lt" am = part of my morning routine wk = part of my work routine pm = part of my evening routine lt = limit (such as bad habits or something that you need to track all of the time) ## The point of this is so that I can have a dashboard that shows me my goals in order of when I tend to do the things. It only shows me the goals that are going to derail that day or the day after, or the goals that need daily data entered and haven’t received it yet. I try to do cardio in the morning, so it’s tagged with “am”, but I use my “projects” goal at work, so it’s tagged with “wk”. My “bad habit” goal has no specific time, so it’s tagged with “lt” The third pair is has either the first letter “o” or “D” and the second letter of either “A” or "B" o = occasional D = daily A = Above B = Below This tells my dashboard whether the goal needs a datapoint every day (“D”, like for the size of an email inbox or bedtime or something – usually connected to the kind of goals that would be well-suited to pessimistic presumptives) or just when there happens to be one (“o” like recording a bad habit, which you hope you won’t have to record every day) The Above/Below distinction is to tell my dashboard whether it gets set in one of the “set a limit” areas or not. For example: “Work Hours dd wk oA FY” is tagged with “oA” because it doesn’t require that I enter a datapoint every day and it’s a goal where I’m trying to stay above the line but “Email Zero dd wk DB FY” is tagged with "“DB” because it’s a goal for which I want to make sure I enter a datapoint every day, and it’s a set-a-limit goal. "Bad Habit AD lt oB fn" is a goal that represents a habit I’m trying to break. Like the email goal, it’s tagged as “B” for below, but it might not require a datapoint every day, so it’s “oB”. (You’ll notice that it’s also an auto-dial goal, so that I can ease myself out of my bad habit! …theoretically) * * * The final pair is either “fn” or "FY" fn = friends can’t see it FY = friends can see it I’ve created a special dashboard for others doing similar things and they can see my goals there. I wanted to make sure they could only see the goals with which I was comfortable, though, so I tag those with “FY” and the other with “fn”. You can just put xx there, though, if you don’t want to have to change the code to ignore it. * * * That all comes to a dashboard that is probably more of a “show” than "tell" so I’m going to attach an image here. (I’m deleting some goals because they’re private to me, but I think you’ll get the gist without them. (Oh, speaking of pictures, each goal has a picture associated to it. It makes it easier to find, and it provides a touch of motivation.) Anyway, I’m sure there are better ways than this, but I stopped trying to improve it once it mostly did what I want. If anyone wants to run with it, go nuts! Files next. (PS - Sorry for the grainy picture. The max size is 2000 pixels) – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Essentiae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Essentiae](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Essentiae)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/18 "2014-04-12T21:58:06Z")
Here are the files. I put them on my server in a file with the “lib” folder from the Api (lib contains Beeminder/Api/…). There are definitely better ways to do this, and I look forward to copy/pasting someone else’s corrections into my files!! – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Essentiae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Essentiae](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Essentiae)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/progressive-goals/1494/19 "2014-04-12T22:03:23Z")
Bonus: I have this, too. I use it to enter my strength training workouts on my smartphone. It will only show the exercises I didn’t do in the last 24 hours (I think). It multiplies the reps by the weight and enters the total as the datapoint and the “reps x weight” numbers as the comment. A quirk: by the time the page has reloaded, the graph still hasn’t updated, so the last exercise you entered will still appear unavailable. – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout).