# Should you let goals derail if you're going to do them after 12AM? **URL:** \ **Category:** uncategorized\ **Created:** [July 16, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/should-you-let-goals-derail-if-youre-going-to-do-them-after-12am/1515 "2014-07-16T16:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![shepheb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/shepheb/32/486_2.png) [@shepheb](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/shepheb)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/should-you-let-goals-derail-if-youre-going-to-do-them-after-12am/1515/1 "2014-07-16T16:08:33Z")
I tend to sleep from ~1:30am to ~8:30 local time, and frequently I’m finishing up something Beeminded well after midnight. I’m not sure if this is a timezone gaffe or deliberate, but my weekly-rate goals derail at 3am, which works nicely for me. I’m totally on board with generalized “midnight”; actual midnight is just another hour of the late evening for night owls like me and my wife. Moving between time zones can be troublesome, though. Braden P.S. I have cheated marginally on this, when I was up really late and was getting the zeno-polling spam literally while doing the task. I put in the data a few minutes before derailing, and finished a few minutes after. I felt vaguely dirty, but it seemed silly to do the legit check dance for this when the task was already halfway done. On Wed Jul 16 2014 at 7:19:05 AM, Brent Yorgey [byorgey@gmail.com](mailto:byorgey@gmail.com) wrote: > +1 from me as well! Though I can see from reading the evolving spec that > it is a rather tricky feature to get right. > > -Brent > > On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Essentiae [essentiae@gmail.com](mailto:essentiae@gmail.com) wrote: > > > SO MUCH ‘YES’ TO THIS: > > > > On 16 July 2014 02:28, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) wrote: > > > > > Oh, and we also want to make this possibly moot by having arbitrary > > > deadlines, aka generalized “midnight”: > > > evolving spec at [Arbitrary Deadlines (Generalized Midnight) Spec](http://expost.padm.us/midnight) > > > > – > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![kkyang](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/kkyang/32/108_2.png) [@kkyang](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/kkyang)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/should-you-let-goals-derail-if-youre-going-to-do-them-after-12am/1515/2 "2014-07-16T04:03:26Z")
Today was a busy day and I wasn’t able to hit my goals before midnight. They were all daily goals so letting it go past midnight would derail me. Since I’m 100% certain that I’m going to do the remaining goals, I simply put the value in so I wouldn’t derail. How do you handle these situations? Thanks! – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![dreev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/dreev/32/4311_2.png) [@dreev](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/dreev)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 4:22am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/should-you-let-goals-derail-if-youre-going-to-do-them-after-12am/1515/3 "2014-07-16T04:22:26Z")
Allow me to express my horror at that idea: :0 We’d honestly much prefer you reply to the legit check and explain why it wasn’t a legit derailment and we’ll undo it and stop the charge and everything (we won’t give you much of a hard time unless you weaselproofed it). Inaccurate data should feel like apostasy – anathema to the Way of the Bee. 🙂 Relevant: > **[Combatting Cheating](https://blog.beeminder.com/cheating)** > > The second most puzzling thing about Beeminder, for those who don’t use it, is why people don’t lie to avoid paying us. Here’s why! Beeminder is foremost a Quantified Self tool, so it feels really wrong and counterproductive to falsify your data.... There’s also the perhaps self-serving answer that when the pledge is just $5 it might not be worth the agonizing and the slippery-slope risk – ie, just cough up the $5 and think of it as a fair price for all the motivation provided up to that point. More on that way of thinking here: [Be Nice To Yourself | Beeminder Blog](http://blog.beeminder.com/beenice) Another way to look at it (taking this from a conversation with a friend who was having a minor Beeminder existential crisis): Mostly Beeminder makes you do the awesomeness-maximizing thing, but once in a while it’s a little off (like forgoing an awesome work spiral in favor of filing papers which can just as well happen tomorrow). But consider the awesomeness level without Beeminder. If that’s much, much lower then it might make sense to live with the small deviations from Absolute Optimal Awesomeness rather than risk neutering Beeminder’s motivational power, the thing keeping you at near-optimal awesomeness. That was way over-verbose. Trying that again: Just do what Beeminder tells you because if you start deviating from that (even with sometimes good excuses) then you could end up not listening to Beeminder at all, which is much worse. More relevant thoughts… Jill’s Rule and the Power of Bright Lines; Or, Beeminder’s No-Free-Lunch Theorem What I said to a user recently who thought our hardnosery (like with that $1000 UVI payout) was ludicrous, we’re only humans, etc: A few years ago when we were getting started, we experimented heavily with grace periods and 3-strikes policies and other ways to solve the problem that you’ve astutely identified. But we gradually came to the conclusion that such leniencies _necessarily_ backfire. We now refer to this amongst ourselves as “Jill’s Rule”. The reason is that you have to spell out exactly what the leniency is – necessary when real money is at stake. But then once you’ve done that you’ve just defined a new edge to skate. Like maybe up to 3 misses per month are allowable. Well, I’m akratic, so I’m going to squander those 3 freebees early in the month and be right back where I started. And worse, unless I understand _exactly_ how the freebees work, I’m actually making it more likely I’ll derail because I’ll know there _is_ leniency and I’ll push things as far as I can which means I can accidentally push them too far. So it turns out to be superior in every way to just make the road itself less steep but then hard-commit to staying on it, with no wiggle room. Another way to say it: the yellow brick road has to be a bright line. Finally, I very much disagree about “paying $1000 to a user for missing one day in an otherwise superhuman, perfect trend is ludicrous” and the reason is a fascinating case of game-theoretic deduction. Suppose we agreed that that was ludicrous: then that “otherwise superhuman, perfect trend” could never have happened! It was only because the $1000 was hanging over our head every day like a sword of damocles that we were motivated to be so superhuman. And it worked, for over 1000 days. And then one day it didn’t and we paid up. Totally worth $1000 for that 1000 days of superhuman awesomeness. If there was a way to argue our way out of paying up then the whole point would be defeated and we wouldn’t be able use the same trick to trick ourselves into another 1000 days of superhuman awesomeness. Also related: [Catch-up Unmustered; or, Easier is Harder | Beeminder Blog](http://blog.beeminder.com/catchup) and the concept of Schelling Fences On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Kenny Yang [yangkennyk@gmail.com](mailto:yangkennyk@gmail.com) wrote: > Today was a busy day and I wasn’t able to hit my goals before midnight. They > were all daily goals so letting it go past midnight would derail me. > > Since I’m 100% certain that I’m going to do the remaining goals, I simply > put the value in so I wouldn’t derail. > > How do you handle these situations? > > Thanks! > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![drmaciver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/drmaciver/32/80_2.png) [@drmaciver](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/drmaciver)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 5:55am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/should-you-let-goals-derail-if-youre-going-to-do-them-after-12am/1515/4 "2014-07-16T05:55:35Z")
I’d just like to plug my backpressure approach as kinda solving this problem: [http://www.drmaciver.com/2014/07/playing-beeminder-on-hard-mode-by-adding-backpressure/](http://www.drmaciver.com/2014/07/playing-beeminder-on-hard-mode-by-adding-backpressure/) By keeping you a week ahead of your beeminder goals it means that “slipping” like this is feh, you’ve added a point to backpressure. Who cares? You’re allowed a point a day (though I feel like one a day is too high now that I’m on top of everything and next week it’s going down to 5 a week - as a result leaving a single goal untouched will cause backpressure to derail before it does if you’ve not got any buffer built up). It creates a fuzzy boundary that gives you a _little_ more tolerance but then rapidly starts to push back if you’re actually derailing for real, and it’s well defined enough that it doesn’t produce the slippery slope effect that making excuses can. I guess in some sense this is logically equivalent to something like the three strikes rules, etc. that bethany is describing as bad in the catchups post but it doesn’t _feel_ like leniency, it feels like a motivator to keep on top of things so that I don’t need leniency in the first place. On 16 July 2014 06:22, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) wrote: > Allow me to express my horror at that idea: :0 > We’d honestly much prefer you reply to the legit check and explain why > it wasn’t a legit derailment and we’ll undo it and stop the charge and > everything (we won’t give you much of a hard time unless you > weaselproofed it). Inaccurate data should feel like apostasy – > anathema to the Way of the Bee. 🙂 Relevant: > [Combatting Cheating | Beeminder Blog](http://blog.beeminder.com/cheating) > > There’s also the perhaps self-serving answer that when the pledge is > just $5 it might not be worth the agonizing and the slippery-slope > risk – ie, just cough up the $5 and think of it as a fair price for > all the motivation provided up to that point. More on that way of > thinking here: [Be Nice To Yourself | Beeminder Blog](http://blog.beeminder.com/beenice) > > Another way to look at it (taking this from a conversation with a > friend who was having a minor Beeminder existential crisis): Mostly > Beeminder makes you do the awesomeness-maximizing thing, but once in a > while it’s a little off (like forgoing an awesome work spiral in favor > of filing papers which can just as well happen tomorrow). But consider > the awesomeness level without Beeminder. If that’s much, much lower > then it might make sense to live with the small deviations from > Absolute Optimal Awesomeness rather than risk neutering Beeminder’s > motivational power, the thing keeping you at near-optimal awesomeness. > > That was way over-verbose. Trying that again: Just do what Beeminder > tells you because if you start deviating from that (even with > sometimes good excuses) then you could end up not listening to > Beeminder at all, which is much worse. > > More relevant thoughts… > > Jill’s Rule and the Power of Bright Lines; Or, Beeminder’s No-Free-Lunch > Theorem > > What I said to a user recently who thought our hardnosery (like with > that $1000 UVI payout) was ludicrous, we’re only humans, etc: > > A few years ago when we were getting started, we experimented heavily > with grace periods and 3-strikes policies and other ways to solve the > problem that you’ve astutely identified. But we gradually came to the > conclusion that such leniencies _necessarily_ backfire. We now refer > to this amongst ourselves as “Jill’s Rule”. The reason is that you > have to spell out exactly what the leniency is – necessary when real > money is at stake. But then once you’ve done that you’ve just defined > a new edge to skate. Like maybe up to 3 misses per month are > allowable. Well, I’m akratic, so I’m going to squander those 3 > freebees early in the month and be right back where I started. > > And worse, unless I understand _exactly_ how the freebees work, I’m > actually making it more likely I’ll derail because I’ll know there > _is_ leniency and I’ll push things as far as I can which means I can > accidentally push them too far. So it turns out to be superior in > every way to just make the road itself less steep but then hard-commit > to staying on it, with no wiggle room. Another way to say it: the > yellow brick road has to be a bright line. > > Finally, I very much disagree about “paying $1000 to a user for > missing one day in an otherwise superhuman, perfect trend is > ludicrous” and the reason is a fascinating case of game-theoretic > deduction. Suppose we agreed that that was ludicrous: then that > “otherwise superhuman, perfect trend” could never have happened! It > was only because the $1000 was hanging over our head every day like > a sword of damocles that we were motivated to be so superhuman. And it > worked, for over 1000 days. And then one day it didn’t and we paid up. > Totally worth $1000 for that 1000 days of superhuman awesomeness. If > there was a way to argue our way out of paying up then the whole point > would be defeated and we wouldn’t be able use the same trick to trick > ourselves into another 1000 days of superhuman awesomeness. > > Also related: [Catch-up Unmustered; or, Easier is Harder | Beeminder Blog](http://blog.beeminder.com/catchup) and the concept of Schelling > Fences > > On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Kenny Yang [yangkennyk@gmail.com](mailto:yangkennyk@gmail.com) wrote: > > > Today was a busy day and I wasn’t able to hit my goals before midnight. > > They > > were all daily goals so letting it go past midnight would derail me. > > > > Since I’m 100% certain that I’m going to do the remaining goals, I simply > > put the value in so I wouldn’t derail. > > > > How do you handle these situations? > > > > Thanks! > > > > – > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > – > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![dreev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/dreev/32/4311_2.png) [@dreev](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/dreev)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 6:28am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/should-you-let-goals-derail-if-youre-going-to-do-them-after-12am/1515/5 "2014-07-16T06:28:40Z")
Oh, and we also want to make this possibly moot by having arbitrary deadlines, aka generalized “midnight”: evolving spec at [Arbitrary Deadlines (Generalized Midnight) Spec](http://expost.padm.us/midnight) PS: We’re deploying the price hike literally any minute now (as usual Bethany is hacking away on code while I’m screwing around on email I mean engaging with users!)… [premium – beeminder](http://beeminder.com/premium) On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:55 PM, David MacIver [david@drmaciver.com](mailto:david@drmaciver.com) wrote: > I’d just like to plug my backpressure approach as kinda solving this > problem: > [Playing beeminder on hard mode by adding backpressure | David R. MacIver](http://www.drmaciver.com/2014/07/playing-beeminder-on-hard-mode-by-adding-backpressure/) > > By keeping you a week ahead of your beeminder goals it means that “slipping” > like this is feh, you’ve added a point to backpressure. Who cares? You’re > allowed a point a day (though I feel like one a day is too high now that I’m > on top of everything and next week it’s going down to 5 a week - as a result > leaving a single goal untouched will cause backpressure to derail before it > does if you’ve not got any buffer built up). It creates a fuzzy boundary > that gives you a little more tolerance but then rapidly starts to push back > if you’re actually derailing for real, and it’s well defined enough that it > doesn’t produce the slippery slope effect that making excuses can. > > I guess in some sense this is logically equivalent to something like the > three strikes rules, etc. that bethany is describing as bad in the catchups > post but it doesn’t feel like leniency, it feels like a motivator to keep on > top of things so that I don’t need leniency in the first place. > > On 16 July 2014 06:22, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) wrote: > > > Allow me to express my horror at that idea: :0 > > We’d honestly much prefer you reply to the legit check and explain why > > it wasn’t a legit derailment and we’ll undo it and stop the charge and > > everything (we won’t give you much of a hard time unless you > > weaselproofed it). Inaccurate data should feel like apostasy – > > anathema to the Way of the Bee. 🙂 Relevant: > > [Combatting Cheating | Beeminder Blog](http://blog.beeminder.com/cheating) > > > > There’s also the perhaps self-serving answer that when the pledge is > > just $5 it might not be worth the agonizing and the slippery-slope > > risk – ie, just cough up the $5 and think of it as a fair price for > > all the motivation provided up to that point. More on that way of > > thinking here: [Be Nice To Yourself | Beeminder Blog](http://blog.beeminder.com/beenice) > > > > Another way to look at it (taking this from a conversation with a > > friend who was having a minor Beeminder existential crisis): Mostly > > Beeminder makes you do the awesomeness-maximizing thing, but once in a > > while it’s a little off (like forgoing an awesome work spiral in favor > > of filing papers which can just as well happen tomorrow). But consider > > the awesomeness level without Beeminder. If that’s much, much lower > > then it might make sense to live with the small deviations from > > Absolute Optimal Awesomeness rather than risk neutering Beeminder’s > > motivational power, the thing keeping you at near-optimal awesomeness. > > > > That was way over-verbose. Trying that again: Just do what Beeminder > > tells you because if you start deviating from that (even with > > sometimes good excuses) then you could end up not listening to > > Beeminder at all, which is much worse. > > > > More relevant thoughts… > > > > Jill’s Rule and the Power of Bright Lines; Or, Beeminder’s No-Free-Lunch > > Theorem > > > > What I said to a user recently who thought our hardnosery (like with > > that $1000 UVI payout) was ludicrous, we’re only humans, etc: > > > > A few years ago when we were getting started, we experimented heavily > > with grace periods and 3-strikes policies and other ways to solve the > > problem that you’ve astutely identified. But we gradually came to the > > conclusion that such leniencies _necessarily_ backfire. We now refer > > to this amongst ourselves as “Jill’s Rule”. The reason is that you > > have to spell out exactly what the leniency is – necessary when real > > money is at stake. But then once you’ve done that you’ve just defined > > a new edge to skate. Like maybe up to 3 misses per month are > > allowable. Well, I’m akratic, so I’m going to squander those 3 > > freebees early in the month and be right back where I started. > > > > And worse, unless I understand _exactly_ how the freebees work, I’m > > actually making it more likely I’ll derail because I’ll know there > > _is_ leniency and I’ll push things as far as I can which means I can > > accidentally push them too far. So it turns out to be superior in > > every way to just make the road itself less steep but then hard-commit > > to staying on it, with no wiggle room. Another way to say it: the > > yellow brick road has to be a bright line. > > > > Finally, I very much disagree about “paying $1000 to a user for > > missing one day in an otherwise superhuman, perfect trend is > > ludicrous” and the reason is a fascinating case of game-theoretic > > deduction. Suppose we agreed that that was ludicrous: then that > > “otherwise superhuman, perfect trend” could never have happened! It > > was only because the $1000 was hanging over our head every day like > > a sword of damocles that we were motivated to be so superhuman. And it > > worked, for over 1000 days. And then one day it didn’t and we paid up. > > Totally worth $1000 for that 1000 days of superhuman awesomeness. If > > there was a way to argue our way out of paying up then the whole point > > would be defeated and we wouldn’t be able use the same trick to trick > > ourselves into another 1000 days of superhuman awesomeness. > > > > Also related: [Catch-up Unmustered; or, Easier is Harder | Beeminder Blog](http://blog.beeminder.com/catchup) and the concept of Schelling > > Fences > > > > On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Kenny Yang [yangkennyk@gmail.com](mailto:yangkennyk@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > Today was a busy day and I wasn’t able to hit my goals before midnight. > > > They > > > were all daily goals so letting it go past midnight would derail me. > > > > > > Since I’m 100% certain that I’m going to do the remaining goals, I > > > simply > > > put the value in so I wouldn’t derail. > > > > > > How do you handle these situations? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > – > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups > > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > > an > > > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > > > – > > [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” > > Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) > > > > – > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – [http://dreev.es](http://dreev.es) – search://“Daniel Reeves” Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) ---
**Author:** ![byorgey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/byorgey/32/70_2.png) [@byorgey](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/byorgey)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 11:38am UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/should-you-let-goals-derail-if-youre-going-to-do-them-after-12am/1515/6 "2014-07-16T11:38:20Z")
If a busy day means you can’t hit your goals, then your goals are probably way too strict — presumably you have busy days often? Unless this was some sort of once-every-100-years busy day, in which case you probably have a legitimate excuse to undo the derailments. But I agree with Daniel, lying to Beeminder by putting in fake data points is not a very good solution. It’s a slippery slope straight to Beeminder being completely ineffectual. -Brent On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 12:03 AM, Kenny Yang [yangkennyk@gmail.com](mailto:yangkennyk@gmail.com) wrote: > Today was a busy day and I wasn’t able to hit my goals before midnight. > They were all daily goals so letting it go past midnight would derail me. > > Since I’m 100% certain that I’m going to do the remaining goals, I simply > put the value in so I wouldn’t derail. > > How do you handle these situations? > > Thanks! > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Essentiae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Essentiae](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Essentiae)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 12:20pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/should-you-let-goals-derail-if-youre-going-to-do-them-after-12am/1515/7 "2014-07-16T12:20:34Z")
SO MUCH ‘YES’ TO THIS: On 16 July 2014 02:28, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) wrote: > Oh, and we also want to make this possibly moot by having arbitrary > deadlines, aka generalized “midnight”: > evolving spec at [Arbitrary Deadlines (Generalized Midnight) Spec](http://expost.padm.us/midnight) – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Essentiae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Essentiae](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/Essentiae)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/should-you-let-goals-derail-if-youre-going-to-do-them-after-12am/1515/8 "2014-07-16T12:24:32Z")
[https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OXV9ofiGlZ4/U8Zu6MFoznI/AAAAAAAAAVo/XM11vxO84bY/s1600/18tzbsqevrs51gif.gif](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OXV9ofiGlZ4/U8Zu6MFoznI/AAAAAAAAAVo/XM11vxO84bY/s1600/18tzbsqevrs51gif.gif) On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 8:20:35 AM UTC-4, Essentiae wrote: > SO MUCH ‘YES’ TO THIS: > > On 16 July 2014 02:28, Daniel Reeves wrote: > > > Oh, and we also want to make this possibly moot by having arbitrary > > deadlines, aka generalized “midnight”: > > evolving spec at [Arbitrary Deadlines (Generalized Midnight) Spec](http://expost.padm.us/midnight) – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![byorgey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.beeminder.com/byorgey/32/70_2.png) [@byorgey](https://forum.beeminder.com/u/byorgey)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://forum.beeminder.com/t/should-you-let-goals-derail-if-youre-going-to-do-them-after-12am/1515/9 "2014-07-16T14:19:04Z")
+1 from me as well! Though I can see from reading the evolving spec that it is a rather tricky feature to get right. -Brent On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Essentiae [essentiae@gmail.com](mailto:essentiae@gmail.com) wrote: > SO MUCH ‘YES’ TO THIS: > > On 16 July 2014 02:28, Daniel Reeves [dreeves@beeminder.com](mailto:dreeves@beeminder.com) wrote: > > > Oh, and we also want to make this possibly moot by having arbitrary > > deadlines, aka generalized “midnight”: > > evolving spec at [Arbitrary Deadlines (Generalized Midnight) Spec](http://expost.padm.us/midnight) > > – > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > “Akratics Anonymous” group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). – You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout).