Beeminder Forum

Beeminding your beeminding with goal backpressure


#1

Here’s a thing I’ve done that might be of general interest:

I wanted to get into a beeminding usage pattern that involved fewer eep
days and more of a buffer on my goals, so I created a beeminder goal for
doing so.

Basic idea: Have a “do less” goal for having goals with less than a week of
buffer left, automated by a python script (
https://github.com/DRMacIver/feedthebee/blob/master/backpressure.py)… I’m
allowed a rate of 7/week, which means that if I have a single goal which is
approaching its deadline I’m fine but if I have two then I will start to
derail.

I wrote a bit more about this here:
http://www.drmaciver.com/2014/07/playing-beeminder-on-hard-mode-by-adding-backpressure/

David


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Feature request: store safety buffer
#2

Love it! To repeat what we chimed in with on twitter, here’s a related idea
we’ve been kicking around:

On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 12:58 PM, David MacIver david.maciver@gmail.com
wrote:

Here’s a thing I’ve done that might be of general interest:

I wanted to get into a beeminding usage pattern that involved fewer eep
days and more of a buffer on my goals, so I created a beeminder goal for
doing so.

Basic idea: Have a “do less” goal for having goals with less than a week
of buffer left, automated by a python script (
https://github.com/DRMacIver/feedthebee/blob/master/backpressure.py)…
I’m allowed a rate of 7/week, which means that if I have a single goal
which is approaching its deadline I’m fine but if I have two then I will
start to derail.

I wrote a bit more about this here:
http://www.drmaciver.com/2014/07/playing-beeminder-on-hard-mode-by-adding-backpressure/

David


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


#3

Initial feedback: Oh gods was I overoptimistic about the rate setting. I’m
probably going to derail this due to bad planning.

I think 1/day is perfectly reasonable long term, but it’s a lot harder to
clear down from 2 a day to 1 a day than I was thinking (because you
probably need to do about a week’s worth of goal!).

On the plus side, it’s definitely working to achieve the intended result.
I’ve got a lot of gym time and reading done since starting this.

On 10 July 2014 00:00, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Love it! To repeat what we chimed in with on twitter, here’s a related
idea we’ve been kicking around:
https://trello.com/c/QIrEJypM/609-metamind-meta-goals-fuer-alles

On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 12:58 PM, David MacIver david.maciver@gmail.com
wrote:

Here’s a thing I’ve done that might be of general interest:

I wanted to get into a beeminding usage pattern that involved fewer eep
days and more of a buffer on my goals, so I created a beeminder goal for
doing so.

Basic idea: Have a “do less” goal for having goals with less than a week
of buffer left, automated by a python script (
https://github.com/DRMacIver/feedthebee/blob/master/backpressure.py)…
I’m allowed a rate of 7/week, which means that if I have a single goal
which is approaching its deadline I’m fine but if I have two then I will
start to derail.

I wrote a bit more about this here:
http://www.drmaciver.com/2014/07/playing-beeminder-on-hard-mode-by-adding-backpressure/

David


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"Akratics Anonymous" group.
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email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


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"Akratics Anonymous" group.
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#4

Hi David!

That’s pretty awesome. I’ve beeminded my beeminding using a less ambitious
(and sadly manual) idea. It’s taken 2 forms over time:

JFDI Before Lunch : I have to despatch all of my beemergencies in the
morning. Danny used a more extreme version, in which he didn’t eat anything
before getting his beemergencies out of the way. Here’s how I described it
at the time:

I have a meta goal (pjh/jfdi) that encourages me to get beemergencies out
of
the way before lunch. It started life as a binary, but that soon got out
of
hand… so now I count fractional success: e.g. if there are 5
beemergencies
today and I get 2 of them done before lunch, then thats 0.4 points. The
akratic nirvana of having safety buffer on all goals is worth 1 point.

“before lunch” turns out to be usefully soft. It’s not a hard deadline
like
midnight or 3AM, so it helps me think about whether eating right now is
what
my body needs, or whether I can fit a task in first, (or whether lunch is
worth an extra $5 today!). Certainly it means that I’m more likely to be
free in the evenings.

Current weekly slope is 4, meaning that slightly more that half of my
beemergencies need to be dealt with promptly each day. The goal text says
it
all: eep-less-ness.

After doing that for a while, I realised that I needed to move my planning
further upstream. Not just doing things in the morning, but making sure
that my entire set of goals was manageable. Here’s the fine print from that
goal

Every now and again, I will get all of my goals into blue or green, so
that
there are no emergency days on the following day.

Orange goals are allowed, but they must have a tick-mark. This in
particular
includes the subset of goals that can be done at most once per day.

Goals that can’t be decided until the day itself don’t count.

I’m really glad that someone has started down the path of automating the
beeminding of their beeminding. I think there’s a rich vein of
functionality in there. Thanks for sharing your script.

Philip
beeminder.com — for your important goals

On 10 July 2014 20:41, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

Initial feedback: Oh gods was I overoptimistic about the rate setting. I’m
probably going to derail this due to bad planning.

I think 1/day is perfectly reasonable long term, but it’s a lot harder to
clear down from 2 a day to 1 a day than I was thinking (because you
probably need to do about a week’s worth of goal!).

On the plus side, it’s definitely working to achieve the intended result.
I’ve got a lot of gym time and reading done since starting this.

On 10 July 2014 00:00, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Love it! To repeat what we chimed in with on twitter, here’s a related
idea we’ve been kicking around:
https://trello.com/c/QIrEJypM/609-metamind-meta-goals-fuer-alles

On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 12:58 PM, David MacIver david.maciver@gmail.com
wrote:

Here’s a thing I’ve done that might be of general interest:

I wanted to get into a beeminding usage pattern that involved fewer eep
days and more of a buffer on my goals, so I created a beeminder goal for
doing so.

Basic idea: Have a “do less” goal for having goals with less than a week
of buffer left, automated by a python script (
https://github.com/DRMacIver/feedthebee/blob/master/backpressure.py)…
I’m allowed a rate of 7/week, which means that if I have a single goal
which is approaching its deadline I’m fine but if I have two then I will
start to derail.

I wrote a bit more about this here:
http://www.drmaciver.com/2014/07/playing-beeminder-on-hard-mode-by-adding-backpressure/

David


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
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an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


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"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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Mega Feature List (and Premium Revamp Discussion)
#5

Cool!

How does the morning thing work out for you? Is your schedule / what you’re
beeminding sufficiently flexible that you can manage to take mornings to
focus on it?

I don’t think the 7 day buffer is actually any harder than a shorter one.
It just requires more initial work. Once you’re on target they move at the
same rate.

BTW, your email suggests that most days are a beeminder emergency day for
you. That sounds extreme. Is that a normal usage pattern? How many goals do
you have? Are they all designed to push you quite hard?

David

P.S. For those who were waiting with bated breath to find out if I
derailed, turns out things were less extreme than I feared. I’ve actually
managed to get things under control. For the moment at least I have
everything with more than 7 days of buffer, though gym is going to fall off
that tomorrow.
Hi David!

That’s pretty awesome. I’ve beeminded my beeminding using a less ambitious
(and sadly manual) idea. It’s taken 2 forms over time:

JFDI Before Lunch : I have to despatch all of my beemergencies in the
morning. Danny used a more extreme version, in which he didn’t eat anything
before getting his beemergencies out of the way. Here’s how I described it
at the time:

I have a meta goal (pjh/jfdi) that encourages me to get beemergencies out
of
the way before lunch. It started life as a binary, but that soon got out
of
hand… so now I count fractional success: e.g. if there are 5
beemergencies
today and I get 2 of them done before lunch, then thats 0.4 points. The
akratic nirvana of having safety buffer on all goals is worth 1 point.

“before lunch” turns out to be usefully soft. It’s not a hard deadline
like
midnight or 3AM, so it helps me think about whether eating right now is
what
my body needs, or whether I can fit a task in first, (or whether lunch is
worth an extra $5 today!). Certainly it means that I’m more likely to be
free in the evenings.

Current weekly slope is 4, meaning that slightly more that half of my
beemergencies need to be dealt with promptly each day. The goal text says
it
all: eep-less-ness.

After doing that for a while, I realised that I needed to move my planning
further upstream. Not just doing things in the morning, but making sure
that my entire set of goals was manageable. Here’s the fine print from that
goal

Every now and again, I will get all of my goals into blue or green, so
that
there are no emergency days on the following day.

Orange goals are allowed, but they must have a tick-mark. This in
particular
includes the subset of goals that can be done at most once per day.

Goals that can’t be decided until the day itself don’t count.

I’m really glad that someone has started down the path of automating the
beeminding of their beeminding. I think there’s a rich vein of
functionality in there. Thanks for sharing your script.

Philip
beeminder.com — for your important goals

On 10 July 2014 20:41, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

Initial feedback: Oh gods was I overoptimistic about the rate setting. I’m
probably going to derail this due to bad planning.

I think 1/day is perfectly reasonable long term, but it’s a lot harder to
clear down from 2 a day to 1 a day than I was thinking (because you
probably need to do about a week’s worth of goal!).

On the plus side, it’s definitely working to achieve the intended result.
I’ve got a lot of gym time and reading done since starting this.

On 10 July 2014 00:00, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Love it! To repeat what we chimed in with on twitter, here’s a related
idea we’ve been kicking around:
https://trello.com/c/QIrEJypM/609-metamind-meta-goals-fuer-alles

On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 12:58 PM, David MacIver david.maciver@gmail.com
wrote:

Here’s a thing I’ve done that might be of general interest:

I wanted to get into a beeminding usage pattern that involved fewer eep
days and more of a buffer on my goals, so I created a beeminder goal for
doing so.

Basic idea: Have a “do less” goal for having goals with less than a week
of buffer left, automated by a python script (
https://github.com/DRMacIver/feedthebee/blob/master/backpressure.py)…
I’m allowed a rate of 7/week, which means that if I have a single goal
which is approaching its deadline I’m fine but if I have two then I will
start to derail.

I wrote a bit more about this here:
http://www.drmaciver.com/2014/07/playing-beeminder-on-hard-mode-by-adding-backpressure/

David


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http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


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"Akratics Anonymous" group.
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"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


#6

At current count, I’ve got 38 active goals. A goodly number of them have
conservative slopes and make use of the (Plan Bee) feature of
auto-ratcheting to ensure that I don’t forget about them altogether. The
more important the goal, the more insistently it should push me.

If you’re morbidly curious, I drafted a blog post about the types of goals
that I’m beeminding:
http://expost.padm.us/howeyeuse

The difficulty about reliably having a free morning is what prompted me to
go to the ‘day before’ version. That and a need to force myself to look
more than one step into the future…

Philip
beeminder.com — for future leverage

On 11 July 2014 14:09, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

Cool!

How does the morning thing work out for you? Is your schedule / what
you’re beeminding sufficiently flexible that you can manage to take
mornings to focus on it?

I don’t think the 7 day buffer is actually any harder than a shorter one.
It just requires more initial work. Once you’re on target they move at the
same rate.

BTW, your email suggests that most days are a beeminder emergency day for
you. That sounds extreme. Is that a normal usage pattern? How many goals do
you have? Are they all designed to push you quite hard?

David

P.S. For those who were waiting with bated breath to find out if I
derailed, turns out things were less extreme than I feared. I’ve actually
managed to get things under control. For the moment at least I have
everything with more than 7 days of buffer, though gym is going to fall off
that tomorrow.
Hi David!

That’s pretty awesome. I’ve beeminded my beeminding using a less ambitious
(and sadly manual) idea. It’s taken 2 forms over time:

JFDI Before Lunch : I have to despatch all of my beemergencies in the
morning. Danny used a more extreme version, in which he didn’t eat anything
before getting his beemergencies out of the way. Here’s how I described it
at the time:

I have a meta goal (pjh/jfdi) that encourages me to get beemergencies
out of
the way before lunch. It started life as a binary, but that soon got out
of
hand… so now I count fractional success: e.g. if there are 5
beemergencies
today and I get 2 of them done before lunch, then thats 0.4 points. The
akratic nirvana of having safety buffer on all goals is worth 1 point.

“before lunch” turns out to be usefully soft. It’s not a hard deadline
like
midnight or 3AM, so it helps me think about whether eating right now is
what
my body needs, or whether I can fit a task in first, (or whether lunch is
worth an extra $5 today!). Certainly it means that I’m more likely to be
free in the evenings.

Current weekly slope is 4, meaning that slightly more that half of my
beemergencies need to be dealt with promptly each day. The goal text
says it
all: eep-less-ness.

After doing that for a while, I realised that I needed to move my planning
further upstream. Not just doing things in the morning, but making sure
that my entire set of goals was manageable. Here’s the fine print from that
goal

Every now and again, I will get all of my goals into blue or green, so
that
there are no emergency days on the following day.

Orange goals are allowed, but they must have a tick-mark. This in
particular
includes the subset of goals that can be done at most once per day.

Goals that can’t be decided until the day itself don’t count.

I’m really glad that someone has started down the path of automating the
beeminding of their beeminding. I think there’s a rich vein of
functionality in there. Thanks for sharing your script.

Philip
beeminder.com — for your important goals

On 10 July 2014 20:41, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

Initial feedback: Oh gods was I overoptimistic about the rate setting.
I’m probably going to derail this due to bad planning.

I think 1/day is perfectly reasonable long term, but it’s a lot harder to
clear down from 2 a day to 1 a day than I was thinking (because you
probably need to do about a week’s worth of goal!).

On the plus side, it’s definitely working to achieve the intended result.
I’ve got a lot of gym time and reading done since starting this.

On 10 July 2014 00:00, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Love it! To repeat what we chimed in with on twitter, here’s a related
idea we’ve been kicking around:
https://trello.com/c/QIrEJypM/609-metamind-meta-goals-fuer-alles

On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 12:58 PM, David MacIver david.maciver@gmail.com
wrote:

Here’s a thing I’ve done that might be of general interest:

I wanted to get into a beeminding usage pattern that involved fewer eep
days and more of a buffer on my goals, so I created a beeminder goal for
doing so.

Basic idea: Have a “do less” goal for having goals with less than a
week of buffer left, automated by a python script (
https://github.com/DRMacIver/feedthebee/blob/master/backpressure.py)…
I’m allowed a rate of 7/week, which means that if I have a single goal
which is approaching its deadline I’m fine but if I have two then I will
start to derail.

I wrote a bit more about this here:
http://www.drmaciver.com/2014/07/playing-beeminder-on-hard-mode-by-adding-backpressure/

David


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


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"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


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"Akratics Anonymous" group.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


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#7

Ah, auto-ratcheting is neat. I’d either not noticed or not really thought
about that before. I’ve one goal that I’ll definitely apply that to (I have
a word-count goal on my blog, but my blogging tends to be very bursty so
what will happen is I write three long posts in short succession and
suddenly have two months of buffer left (which I would sometimes manually
ratchet down, but still). Being able to enforce a cap on that is nice.

The blog post is interesting, thanks. How lenient are your in setting your
outcome goals? I confess to being quite afraid of the idea of outcome goals
and have so far avoided them entirely - the only goals I have set are ones
where there’s a direct linear relationship between a thing I do and the
data that gets entered into beeminder (words written, time spent on an
activity, etc) so that the thing that causes me to potentially derail is
always “I didn’t do enough X” (or “I did too much X”).

I’ve currently got a bit less than half that number of goals, but I suspect
I’ll be getting there alarmingly quickly. Right now I’m mostly setting my
beeminders to rates that are reasonably easy to achieve but that I would
probably fail to do so due to sheer procrastination / weak will and
increasing the pressure over time by bringing more and more things under
the aegis of beeminder.

On the backpressure front: I’ve realised it works terribly for "Do Less"
goals, because the problem is that the only way to affect them is to sit
there, which may mean there’s nothing you can do to stop the backpressure
from derailing. I’ve modified my script to only apply to hustler goal types
(and edited out the datapoints that were from non-hustler goals. This feels
a bit weaselly, but I think it’s legit). I am considering creating a do
more goal to complement my do less goals in the same way that backpressure
is a do less goal to complement my do more goals.

David

On 11 July 2014 18:17, Philip Hellyer philip@hellyer.net wrote:

At current count, I’ve got 38 active goals. A goodly number of them have
conservative slopes and make use of the (Plan Bee) feature of
auto-ratcheting to ensure that I don’t forget about them altogether. The
more important the goal, the more insistently it should push me.

If you’re morbidly curious, I drafted a blog post about the types of goals
that I’m beeminding:
http://expost.padm.us/howeyeuse

The difficulty about reliably having a free morning is what prompted me to
go to the ‘day before’ version. That and a need to force myself to look
more than one step into the future…

Philip
beeminder.com — for future leverage

On 11 July 2014 14:09, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

Cool!

How does the morning thing work out for you? Is your schedule / what
you’re beeminding sufficiently flexible that you can manage to take
mornings to focus on it?

I don’t think the 7 day buffer is actually any harder than a shorter
one. It just requires more initial work. Once you’re on target they move at
the same rate.

BTW, your email suggests that most days are a beeminder emergency day for
you. That sounds extreme. Is that a normal usage pattern? How many goals do
you have? Are they all designed to push you quite hard?

David

P.S. For those who were waiting with bated breath to find out if I
derailed, turns out things were less extreme than I feared. I’ve actually
managed to get things under control. For the moment at least I have
everything with more than 7 days of buffer, though gym is going to fall off
that tomorrow.
Hi David!

That’s pretty awesome. I’ve beeminded my beeminding using a less
ambitious (and sadly manual) idea. It’s taken 2 forms over time:

JFDI Before Lunch : I have to despatch all of my beemergencies in the
morning. Danny used a more extreme version, in which he didn’t eat anything
before getting his beemergencies out of the way. Here’s how I described it
at the time:

I have a meta goal (pjh/jfdi) that encourages me to get beemergencies
out of
the way before lunch. It started life as a binary, but that soon got
out of
hand… so now I count fractional success: e.g. if there are 5
beemergencies
today and I get 2 of them done before lunch, then thats 0.4 points. The
akratic nirvana of having safety buffer on all goals is worth 1 point.

“before lunch” turns out to be usefully soft. It’s not a hard deadline
like
midnight or 3AM, so it helps me think about whether eating right now is
what
my body needs, or whether I can fit a task in first, (or whether lunch
is
worth an extra $5 today!). Certainly it means that I’m more likely to be
free in the evenings.

Current weekly slope is 4, meaning that slightly more that half of my
beemergencies need to be dealt with promptly each day. The goal text
says it
all: eep-less-ness.

After doing that for a while, I realised that I needed to move my
planning further upstream. Not just doing things in the morning, but making
sure that my entire set of goals was manageable. Here’s the fine print from
that goal

Every now and again, I will get all of my goals into blue or green, so
that
there are no emergency days on the following day.

Orange goals are allowed, but they must have a tick-mark. This in
particular
includes the subset of goals that can be done at most once per day.

Goals that can’t be decided until the day itself don’t count.

I’m really glad that someone has started down the path of automating the
beeminding of their beeminding. I think there’s a rich vein of
functionality in there. Thanks for sharing your script.

Philip
beeminder.com — for your important goals

On 10 July 2014 20:41, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

Initial feedback: Oh gods was I overoptimistic about the rate setting.
I’m probably going to derail this due to bad planning.

I think 1/day is perfectly reasonable long term, but it’s a lot harder
to clear down from 2 a day to 1 a day than I was thinking (because you
probably need to do about a week’s worth of goal!).

On the plus side, it’s definitely working to achieve the intended
result. I’ve got a lot of gym time and reading done since starting
this.

On 10 July 2014 00:00, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Love it! To repeat what we chimed in with on twitter, here’s a related
idea we’ve been kicking around:
https://trello.com/c/QIrEJypM/609-metamind-meta-goals-fuer-alles

On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 12:58 PM, David MacIver <david.maciver@gmail.com

wrote:

Here’s a thing I’ve done that might be of general interest:

I wanted to get into a beeminding usage pattern that involved fewer
eep days and more of a buffer on my goals, so I created a beeminder goal
for doing so.

Basic idea: Have a “do less” goal for having goals with less than a
week of buffer left, automated by a python script (
https://github.com/DRMacIver/feedthebee/blob/master/backpressure.py)…
I’m allowed a rate of 7/week, which means that if I have a single goal
which is approaching its deadline I’m fine but if I have two then I will
start to derail.

I wrote a bit more about this here:
http://www.drmaciver.com/2014/07/playing-beeminder-on-hard-mode-by-adding-backpressure/

David


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http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


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#8

I currently have 3 outcome goals, and they’re super-lenient. Arguably
they’re just ‘tracking’ rather than ‘achieving’. If they ever lapse enough
to be ‘on the road’ then that’s a signal that the supporting goals aren’t
tuned right. Beeminder may not be the best place to track outcomes, but
putting all of the graphs in the same place seems like a Good Thing.

A super-lenient example: my weight goal is set to -0.05 kg per week, or
about half a pound each month. It’s got no autoratchet or any magic, just
gently encourages my weight in a non-upwards direction. I’ve got more
rigorous gym, run, and eating goals. I can’t claim success yet through this
approach, since I’ve fallen off all of those roads recently. But I’m
certain that I’m in better shape than I would have been without them.

Almost by definition, my outcome goals have the most safety buffer, so I’ve
also gone to the “terrifyingly advanced” settings page and set the “panic
threshold” to something large. This forces them to the top of the sort
order in my gallery. Otherwise they’d be too out of sight for my brain.

Philip

p.s. I was wondering how you were planning to distinguish between goals on
the backpressure front. IIRC, essentiae’s awesome dashboard script makes
use of 2-letter tags in the goal names to include or exclude goals from
particular algorithms.

On 11 July 2014 19:03, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

Ah, auto-ratcheting is neat. I’d either not noticed or not really thought
about that before. I’ve one goal that I’ll definitely apply that to (I have
a word-count goal on my blog, but my blogging tends to be very bursty so
what will happen is I write three long posts in short succession and
suddenly have two months of buffer left (which I would sometimes manually
ratchet down, but still). Being able to enforce a cap on that is nice.

The blog post is interesting, thanks. How lenient are your in setting your
outcome goals? I confess to being quite afraid of the idea of outcome goals
and have so far avoided them entirely - the only goals I have set are ones
where there’s a direct linear relationship between a thing I do and the
data that gets entered into beeminder (words written, time spent on an
activity, etc) so that the thing that causes me to potentially derail is
always “I didn’t do enough X” (or “I did too much X”).

I’ve currently got a bit less than half that number of goals, but I
suspect I’ll be getting there alarmingly quickly. Right now I’m mostly
setting my beeminders to rates that are reasonably easy to achieve but that
I would probably fail to do so due to sheer procrastination / weak will and
increasing the pressure over time by bringing more and more things under
the aegis of beeminder.

On the backpressure front: I’ve realised it works terribly for "Do Less"
goals, because the problem is that the only way to affect them is to sit
there, which may mean there’s nothing you can do to stop the backpressure
from derailing. I’ve modified my script to only apply to hustler goal types
(and edited out the datapoints that were from non-hustler goals. This feels
a bit weaselly, but I think it’s legit). I am considering creating a do
more goal to complement my do less goals in the same way that backpressure
is a do less goal to complement my do more goals.

David

On 11 July 2014 18:17, Philip Hellyer philip@hellyer.net wrote:

At current count, I’ve got 38 active goals. A goodly number of them have
conservative slopes and make use of the (Plan Bee) feature of
auto-ratcheting to ensure that I don’t forget about them altogether. The
more important the goal, the more insistently it should push me.

If you’re morbidly curious, I drafted a blog post about the types of
goals that I’m beeminding:
http://expost.padm.us/howeyeuse

The difficulty about reliably having a free morning is what prompted me
to go to the ‘day before’ version. That and a need to force myself to look
more than one step into the future…

Philip
beeminder.com — for future leverage

On 11 July 2014 14:09, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

Cool!

How does the morning thing work out for you? Is your schedule / what
you’re beeminding sufficiently flexible that you can manage to take
mornings to focus on it?

I don’t think the 7 day buffer is actually any harder than a shorter
one. It just requires more initial work. Once you’re on target they move at
the same rate.

BTW, your email suggests that most days are a beeminder emergency day
for you. That sounds extreme. Is that a normal usage pattern? How many
goals do you have? Are they all designed to push you quite hard?

David

P.S. For those who were waiting with bated breath to find out if I
derailed, turns out things were less extreme than I feared. I’ve actually
managed to get things under control. For the moment at least I have
everything with more than 7 days of buffer, though gym is going to fall off
that tomorrow.
Hi David!

That’s pretty awesome. I’ve beeminded my beeminding using a less
ambitious (and sadly manual) idea. It’s taken 2 forms over time:

JFDI Before Lunch : I have to despatch all of my beemergencies in the
morning. Danny used a more extreme version, in which he didn’t eat anything
before getting his beemergencies out of the way. Here’s how I described it
at the time:

I have a meta goal (pjh/jfdi) that encourages me to get beemergencies
out of
the way before lunch. It started life as a binary, but that soon got
out of
hand… so now I count fractional success: e.g. if there are 5
beemergencies
today and I get 2 of them done before lunch, then thats 0.4 points.
The
akratic nirvana of having safety buffer on all goals is worth 1 point.

“before lunch” turns out to be usefully soft. It’s not a hard deadline
like
midnight or 3AM, so it helps me think about whether eating right now
is what
my body needs, or whether I can fit a task in first, (or whether lunch
is
worth an extra $5 today!). Certainly it means that I’m more likely to
be
free in the evenings.

Current weekly slope is 4, meaning that slightly more that half of my
beemergencies need to be dealt with promptly each day. The goal text
says it
all: eep-less-ness.

After doing that for a while, I realised that I needed to move my
planning further upstream. Not just doing things in the morning, but making
sure that my entire set of goals was manageable. Here’s the fine print from
that goal

Every now and again, I will get all of my goals into blue or green, so
that
there are no emergency days on the following day.

Orange goals are allowed, but they must have a tick-mark. This in
particular
includes the subset of goals that can be done at most once per day.

Goals that can’t be decided until the day itself don’t count.

I’m really glad that someone has started down the path of automating the
beeminding of their beeminding. I think there’s a rich vein of
functionality in there. Thanks for sharing your script.

Philip
beeminder.com — for your important goals

On 10 July 2014 20:41, David MacIver david@drmaciver.com wrote:

Initial feedback: Oh gods was I overoptimistic about the rate setting.
I’m probably going to derail this due to bad planning.

I think 1/day is perfectly reasonable long term, but it’s a lot harder
to clear down from 2 a day to 1 a day than I was thinking (because you
probably need to do about a week’s worth of goal!).

On the plus side, it’s definitely working to achieve the intended
result. I’ve got a lot of gym time and reading done since starting
this.

On 10 July 2014 00:00, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Love it! To repeat what we chimed in with on twitter, here’s a related
idea we’ve been kicking around:
https://trello.com/c/QIrEJypM/609-metamind-meta-goals-fuer-alles

On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 12:58 PM, David MacIver <
david.maciver@gmail.com> wrote:

Here’s a thing I’ve done that might be of general interest:

I wanted to get into a beeminding usage pattern that involved fewer
eep days and more of a buffer on my goals, so I created a beeminder goal
for doing so.

Basic idea: Have a “do less” goal for having goals with less than a
week of buffer left, automated by a python script (
https://github.com/DRMacIver/feedthebee/blob/master/backpressure.py)…
I’m allowed a rate of 7/week, which means that if I have a single goal
which is approaching its deadline I’m fine but if I have two then I will
start to derail.

I wrote a bit more about this here:
http://www.drmaciver.com/2014/07/playing-beeminder-on-hard-mode-by-adding-backpressure/

David


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http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


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