Tips for beeminding occasional behavior of unknown frequency?

#1

I was inspired by some recent threads about beeminding bedtime, insomnia,
etc. to think more carefully about a certain tendency of mine. I
occasionally (perhaps once every week or two) have some mild insomnia, and
when that happens I often get up and do stuff on my computer for a while
and then go back to bed. The problem is that no matter how short of a
computer session I promise myself to have, I invariably get sucked into
something (usually not all that productive to boot, like chatting on IRC,
checking email for the 100th time, etc.) and stay up way later than I would
like, and probably long past the point where I could have fallen asleep had
I gone back to bed.

So, I have informally committed to not using my computer if and when I get
up due to insomnia, but to do something else like read or write (the
old-fashioned way, with books and pens). This happened to me last week and
it worked great – I filled up two whole pages with (what still seem like)
some great ideas, then went back to bed and right to sleep after only 45
minutes.

The problem is that I do not know how long this will remain a novel, fun
thing to do, and I fear that I may akratically succumb to the siren call of
my computer. So I would like to beemind
not-using-a-computer-when-insomniac, but I am unsure how to do it, since
(a) my goal consists in simply NOT doing something, ever, and (b) I only
occasionally even have the opportunity to not-do it, and there is no way to
predict in advance how frequent or infrequent that might be.

Anyone have any ideas? Perhaps I could just create a flat set-a-limit goal
with PPR turned off, so that if I ever enter a data point I will
immediately derail (which is what I would want)? Has anyone ever tried
anything similar?

-Brent

#2

Beemind locking the computer in a clearly marked box every night.
Basically, beemind some just-doable countermeasure that reduces the risk.

I don’t know if that in particular will work, but something along those
lines might. A non-beeminder version that is perhaps more effective is to
install a cron job that locks your computer up between bedtime and wake
time, or disconnects the internet.

More generally, my strategy on beeminding random variables is to beemind
the just-doable preparations that improve probabilities, and then let the
success flow. For example, I’m beeminding talking to more cool people, but
indirectly beeminding conversations would be uncontrollable madness;
beeminder can only give you willpower, so if you can’t advance by sheer
force of will whenever you need to, it can’t help. Therefor I beemind all
the just-doable actions (figure out who to talk to, research them, contact
them) that lead up to what I actually want.

Another way for your problem is to mark sleeping without insomnia as
success. So, beemind “didn’t use computer last night”, for all reasons
including “didn’t wake up”. This might fail by having your crunch time not
coincide with your opportunities to fail. You might want to retroratchet
this one a lot? At least it more directly targets your goal of getting good
sleep.

The critical flatline idea sounds pretty good though.

Good luck
On Aug 26, 2013 7:29 AM, “Brent Yorgey” byorgey@gmail.com wrote:

I was inspired by some recent threads about beeminding bedtime, insomnia,
etc. to think more carefully about a certain tendency of mine. I
occasionally (perhaps once every week or two) have some mild insomnia, and
when that happens I often get up and do stuff on my computer for a while
and then go back to bed. The problem is that no matter how short of a
computer session I promise myself to have, I invariably get sucked into
something (usually not all that productive to boot, like chatting on IRC,
checking email for the 100th time, etc.) and stay up way later than I would
like, and probably long past the point where I could have fallen asleep had
I gone back to bed.

So, I have informally committed to not using my computer if and when I get
up due to insomnia, but to do something else like read or write (the
old-fashioned way, with books and pens). This happened to me last week and
it worked great – I filled up two whole pages with (what still seem like)
some great ideas, then went back to bed and right to sleep after only 45
minutes.

The problem is that I do not know how long this will remain a novel, fun
thing to do, and I fear that I may akratically succumb to the siren call of
my computer. So I would like to beemind
not-using-a-computer-when-insomniac, but I am unsure how to do it, since
(a) my goal consists in simply NOT doing something, ever, and (b) I only
occasionally even have the opportunity to not-do it, and there is no way to
predict in advance how frequent or infrequent that might be.

Anyone have any ideas? Perhaps I could just create a flat set-a-limit
goal with PPR turned off, so that if I ever enter a data point I will
immediately derail (which is what I would want)? Has anyone ever tried
anything similar?

-Brent

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#3

Do a variant on this:

http://blog.beeminder.com/sin/

Keep a doc that sets out a list of small print for yourself. Stuff you’re
not going to do, etc.

For every day you are successful, give yourself a 1. If you fail, a 0.

On 26 August 2013 15:29, Brent Yorgey byorgey@gmail.com wrote:

I was inspired by some recent threads about beeminding bedtime, insomnia,
etc. to think more carefully about a certain tendency of mine. I
occasionally (perhaps once every week or two) have some mild insomnia, and
when that happens I often get up and do stuff on my computer for a while
and then go back to bed. The problem is that no matter how short of a
computer session I promise myself to have, I invariably get sucked into
something (usually not all that productive to boot, like chatting on IRC,
checking email for the 100th time, etc.) and stay up way later than I would
like, and probably long past the point where I could have fallen asleep had
I gone back to bed.

So, I have informally committed to not using my computer if and when I get
up due to insomnia, but to do something else like read or write (the
old-fashioned way, with books and pens). This happened to me last week and
it worked great – I filled up two whole pages with (what still seem like)
some great ideas, then went back to bed and right to sleep after only 45
minutes.

The problem is that I do not know how long this will remain a novel, fun
thing to do, and I fear that I may akratically succumb to the siren call of
my computer. So I would like to beemind
not-using-a-computer-when-insomniac, but I am unsure how to do it, since
(a) my goal consists in simply NOT doing something, ever, and (b) I only
occasionally even have the opportunity to not-do it, and there is no way to
predict in advance how frequent or infrequent that might be.

Anyone have any ideas? Perhaps I could just create a flat set-a-limit
goal with PPR turned off, so that if I ever enter a data point I will
immediately derail (which is what I would want)? Has anyone ever tried
anything similar?

-Brent

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#4

Side note:
Install f.lux - http://justgetflux.comhttp://justgetflux.com/ and/or wear http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S1933X-Eyewear-SCT-Orange-Anti-Fog/dp/B000USRG90 if you are on your computer at night - will help with sleep.

There is also twilight for android, and I think there is f.lux for the ipod.

The blue light emitted from your computer will impact melatonin production, and hence sleep.

-Jolly

From: akratics@googlegroups.com [mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Wolf Tivy
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 10:48 AM
To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Tips for beeminding occasional behavior of unknown frequency?

Beemind locking the computer in a clearly marked box every night. Basically, beemind some just-doable countermeasure that reduces the risk.

I don’t know if that in particular will work, but something along those lines might. A non-beeminder version that is perhaps more effective is to install a cron job that locks your computer up between bedtime and wake time, or disconnects the internet.

More generally, my strategy on beeminding random variables is to beemind the just-doable preparations that improve probabilities, and then let the success flow. For example, I’m beeminding talking to more cool people, but indirectly beeminding conversations would be uncontrollable madness; beeminder can only give you willpower, so if you can’t advance by sheer force of will whenever you need to, it can’t help. Therefor I beemind all the just-doable actions (figure out who to talk to, research them, contact them) that lead up to what I actually want.

Another way for your problem is to mark sleeping without insomnia as success. So, beemind “didn’t use computer last night”, for all reasons including “didn’t wake up”. This might fail by having your crunch time not coincide with your opportunities to fail. You might want to retroratchet this one a lot? At least it more directly targets your goal of getting good sleep.

The critical flatline idea sounds pretty good though.

Good luck
On Aug 26, 2013 7:29 AM, “Brent Yorgey” <byorgey@gmail.commailto:byorgey@gmail.com> wrote:
I was inspired by some recent threads about beeminding bedtime, insomnia, etc. to think more carefully about a certain tendency of mine. I occasionally (perhaps once every week or two) have some mild insomnia, and when that happens I often get up and do stuff on my computer for a while and then go back to bed. The problem is that no matter how short of a computer session I promise myself to have, I invariably get sucked into something (usually not all that productive to boot, like chatting on IRC, checking email for the 100th time, etc.) and stay up way later than I would like, and probably long past the point where I could have fallen asleep had I gone back to bed.
So, I have informally committed to not using my computer if and when I get up due to insomnia, but to do something else like read or write (the old-fashioned way, with books and pens). This happened to me last week and it worked great – I filled up two whole pages with (what still seem like) some great ideas, then went back to bed and right to sleep after only 45 minutes.
The problem is that I do not know how long this will remain a novel, fun thing to do, and I fear that I may akratically succumb to the siren call of my computer. So I would like to beemind not-using-a-computer-when-insomniac, but I am unsure how to do it, since (a) my goal consists in simply NOT doing something, ever, and (b) I only occasionally even have the opportunity to not-do it, and there is no way to predict in advance how frequent or infrequent that might be.
Anyone have any ideas? Perhaps I could just create a flat set-a-limit goal with PPR turned off, so that if I ever enter a data point I will immediately derail (which is what I would want)? Has anyone ever tried anything similar?
-Brent

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#5

A update on the failure mode of sin beeminders; my akratic self and later
reflecting self can disagree on what borderline activities are sinful, and
without immediate failure, hyperbolic discounting can make it not feel
important in the moment. So then most of my derails are me retroactively
failing my past self to maintain credibility, even though my past self was
not strictly aware that they would fail. It generally works, but isn’t
perfect.

Also, I now break the day into three periods (-lunch, -dinner, -bed) for
finer grained not-sinning.

Beeminder currently works best for things you can panic on and do heroics
at 11:59, rather than things that require constant vigiliance; I often
don’t know if I’m in the red on sin, so don’t get that motivation.

Sorry about the tangent
On Aug 26, 2013 7:48 AM, “Noah Wilde” nwilde@tumbolia.org wrote:

Do a variant on this:

http://blog.beeminder.com/sin/

Keep a doc that sets out a list of small print for yourself. Stuff you’re
not going to do, etc.

For every day you are successful, give yourself a 1. If you fail, a 0.

On 26 August 2013 15:29, Brent Yorgey byorgey@gmail.com wrote:

I was inspired by some recent threads about beeminding bedtime, insomnia,
etc. to think more carefully about a certain tendency of mine. I
occasionally (perhaps once every week or two) have some mild insomnia, and
when that happens I often get up and do stuff on my computer for a while
and then go back to bed. The problem is that no matter how short of a
computer session I promise myself to have, I invariably get sucked into
something (usually not all that productive to boot, like chatting on IRC,
checking email for the 100th time, etc.) and stay up way later than I would
like, and probably long past the point where I could have fallen asleep had
I gone back to bed.

So, I have informally committed to not using my computer if and when I
get up due to insomnia, but to do something else like read or write (the
old-fashioned way, with books and pens). This happened to me last week and
it worked great – I filled up two whole pages with (what still seem like)
some great ideas, then went back to bed and right to sleep after only 45
minutes.

The problem is that I do not know how long this will remain a novel, fun
thing to do, and I fear that I may akratically succumb to the siren call of
my computer. So I would like to beemind
not-using-a-computer-when-insomniac, but I am unsure how to do it, since
(a) my goal consists in simply NOT doing something, ever, and (b) I only
occasionally even have the opportunity to not-do it, and there is no way to
predict in advance how frequent or infrequent that might be.

Anyone have any ideas? Perhaps I could just create a flat set-a-limit
goal with PPR turned off, so that if I ever enter a data point I will
immediately derail (which is what I would want)? Has anyone ever tried
anything similar?

-Brent

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#6

Thanks for the feedback, everyone! A few responses:

I did consider the idea of putting in a data point representing success
every time I don’t use the computer after bedtime (whether insomnia or no)
but that’s super annoying: every day I will have a beemergency on that goal
and have to remember to put in a 1. I would rather simply not think about
the goal at all, until such time as I have insomnia, and then remember “oh
yeah, if I get on my computer now I will either have to lie to beeminder or
pay $X”. Beeminding locking my computer in a box has the same problem, but
it’s even worse than that: what if I forget to lock my computer in a box,
but sleep through the night? Should I derail or not? Technically (since I
am beeminding locking my computer in a box), I should; but that’s stupid
since I really don’t care about locking my computer in a box. I have used
a similar strategy (beemind an easy just-do proxy for the thing I really
want to track) in other cases, but for this strategy to really work the
easy just-do thing must also have some intrinsic value to me; locking my
computer in a box does not.

I was never really convinced by the beeminding sin thing, and anyway it
also has the same problem: I have to enter a data point every day.

So, I tried creating a set-a-limit goal with a rate of 0, but the goal
creation wizard won’t let me! =( I see no reason why a starting rate of 0
should be disallowed, unless it is a premium feature or something.

-Brent

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Wolf Tivy wwtivy@gmail.com wrote:

A update on the failure mode of sin beeminders; my akratic self and later
reflecting self can disagree on what borderline activities are sinful, and
without immediate failure, hyperbolic discounting can make it not feel
important in the moment. So then most of my derails are me retroactively
failing my past self to maintain credibility, even though my past self was
not strictly aware that they would fail. It generally works, but isn’t
perfect.

Also, I now break the day into three periods (-lunch, -dinner, -bed) for
finer grained not-sinning.

Beeminder currently works best for things you can panic on and do heroics
at 11:59, rather than things that require constant vigiliance; I often
don’t know if I’m in the red on sin, so don’t get that motivation.

Sorry about the tangent
On Aug 26, 2013 7:48 AM, “Noah Wilde” nwilde@tumbolia.org wrote:

Do a variant on this:

http://blog.beeminder.com/sin/

Keep a doc that sets out a list of small print for yourself. Stuff you’re
not going to do, etc.

For every day you are successful, give yourself a 1. If you fail, a 0.

On 26 August 2013 15:29, Brent Yorgey byorgey@gmail.com wrote:

I was inspired by some recent threads about beeminding bedtime,
insomnia, etc. to think more carefully about a certain tendency of mine. I
occasionally (perhaps once every week or two) have some mild insomnia, and
when that happens I often get up and do stuff on my computer for a while
and then go back to bed. The problem is that no matter how short of a
computer session I promise myself to have, I invariably get sucked into
something (usually not all that productive to boot, like chatting on IRC,
checking email for the 100th time, etc.) and stay up way later than I would
like, and probably long past the point where I could have fallen asleep had
I gone back to bed.

So, I have informally committed to not using my computer if and when I
get up due to insomnia, but to do something else like read or write (the
old-fashioned way, with books and pens). This happened to me last week and
it worked great – I filled up two whole pages with (what still seem like)
some great ideas, then went back to bed and right to sleep after only 45
minutes.

The problem is that I do not know how long this will remain a novel, fun
thing to do, and I fear that I may akratically succumb to the siren call of
my computer. So I would like to beemind
not-using-a-computer-when-insomniac, but I am unsure how to do it, since
(a) my goal consists in simply NOT doing something, ever, and (b) I only
occasionally even have the opportunity to not-do it, and there is no way to
predict in advance how frequent or infrequent that might be.

Anyone have any ideas? Perhaps I could just create a flat set-a-limit
goal with PPR turned off, so that if I ever enter a data point I will
immediately derail (which is what I would want)? Has anyone ever tried
anything similar?

-Brent

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#7

Thanks for the f.lux tip – I just installed it! We’ll see if it helps.

-Brent

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Apneet Jolly jolly@ajollylife.com wrote:

Side note:****

Install f.lux - http://justgetflux.com and/or wear
http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S1933X-Eyewear-SCT-Orange-Anti-Fog/dp/B000USRG90if you are on your computer at night – will help with sleep.

There is also twilight for android, and I think there is f.lux for the
ipod.****

The blue light emitted from your computer will impact melatonin
production, and hence sleep.****

-Jolly****

From: akratics@googlegroups.com [mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Wolf Tivy
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 10:48 AM
To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Tips for beeminding occasional behavior of unknown
frequency?**

Beemind locking the computer in a clearly marked box every night.
Basically, beemind some just-doable countermeasure that reduces the risk.*

I don’t know if that in particular will work, but something along those
lines might. A non-beeminder version that is perhaps more effective is to
install a cron job that locks your computer up between bedtime and wake
time, or disconnects the internet.****

More generally, my strategy on beeminding random variables is to beemind
the just-doable preparations that improve probabilities, and then let the
success flow. For example, I’m beeminding talking to more cool people, but
indirectly beeminding conversations would be uncontrollable madness;
beeminder can only give you willpower, so if you can’t advance by sheer
force of will whenever you need to, it can’t help. Therefor I beemind all
the just-doable actions (figure out who to talk to, research them, contact
them) that lead up to what I actually want.****

Another way for your problem is to mark sleeping without insomnia as
success. So, beemind “didn’t use computer last night”, for all reasons
including “didn’t wake up”. This might fail by having your crunch time not
coincide with your opportunities to fail. You might want to retroratchet
this one a lot? At least it more directly targets your goal of getting good
sleep.****

The critical flatline idea sounds pretty good though.****

Good luck****

On Aug 26, 2013 7:29 AM, “Brent Yorgey” byorgey@gmail.com wrote:****

I was inspired by some recent threads about beeminding bedtime, insomnia,
etc. to think more carefully about a certain tendency of mine. I
occasionally (perhaps once every week or two) have some mild insomnia, and
when that happens I often get up and do stuff on my computer for a while
and then go back to bed. The problem is that no matter how short of a
computer session I promise myself to have, I invariably get sucked into
something (usually not all that productive to boot, like chatting on IRC,
checking email for the 100th time, etc.) and stay up way later than I would
like, and probably long past the point where I could have fallen asleep had
I gone back to bed.****

So, I have informally committed to not using my computer if and when I get
up due to insomnia, but to do something else like read or write (the
old-fashioned way, with books and pens). This happened to me last week and
it worked great – I filled up two whole pages with (what still seem like)
some great ideas, then went back to bed and right to sleep after only 45
minutes.****

The problem is that I do not know how long this will remain a novel, fun
thing to do, and I fear that I may akratically succumb to the siren call of
my computer. So I would like to beemind
not-using-a-computer-when-insomniac, but I am unsure how to do it, since
(a) my goal consists in simply NOT doing something, ever, and (b) I only
occasionally even have the opportunity to not-do it, and there is no way to
predict in advance how frequent or infrequent that might be.****

Anyone have any ideas? Perhaps I could just create a flat set-a-limit
goal with PPR turned off, so that if I ever enter a data point I will
immediately derail (which is what I would want)? Has anyone ever tried
anything similar?****

-Brent****

–
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"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.****

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#8

Brent, do you ever leave your computer on overnight, even when you are
not using it? If you do NOT do that (i.e., if you ALWAYS turn your PC
off before you go to bed, and then turn it back on when you have
insomnia), you could set up a scheduled job that runs every 15 minutes
but only during the hours when you are meant to be asleep. The job
logs a datapoint to a Beeminder goal each time it runs. The Beeminder
goal has a flat road, so ANY data point will make it fail.

Thus you’re letting your PC log your bad behaviour for you, but it
won’t be able to log anything if it’s not on.

On 27 August 2013 01:54, Brent Yorgey byorgey@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks for the f.lux tip – I just installed it! We’ll see if it helps.

-Brent

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Apneet Jolly jolly@ajollylife.com wrote:

Side note:

Install f.lux - http://justgetflux.com and/or wear
http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S1933X-Eyewear-SCT-Orange-Anti-Fog/dp/B000USRG90
if you are on your computer at night – will help with sleep.

There is also twilight for android, and I think there is f.lux for the
ipod.

The blue light emitted from your computer will impact melatonin
production, and hence sleep.

-Jolly

From: akratics@googlegroups.com [mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Wolf Tivy
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 10:48 AM
To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Tips for beeminding occasional behavior of unknown frequency?

Beemind locking the computer in a clearly marked box every night.
Basically, beemind some just-doable countermeasure that reduces the risk.

I don’t know if that in particular will work, but something along those
lines might. A non-beeminder version that is perhaps more effective is to
install a cron job that locks your computer up between bedtime and wake
time, or disconnects the internet.

More generally, my strategy on beeminding random variables is to beemind
the just-doable preparations that improve probabilities, and then let the
success flow. For example, I’m beeminding talking to more cool people, but
indirectly beeminding conversations would be uncontrollable madness;
beeminder can only give you willpower, so if you can’t advance by sheer
force of will whenever you need to, it can’t help. Therefor I beemind all
the just-doable actions (figure out who to talk to, research them, contact
them) that lead up to what I actually want.

Another way for your problem is to mark sleeping without insomnia as
success. So, beemind “didn’t use computer last night”, for all reasons
including “didn’t wake up”. This might fail by having your crunch time not
coincide with your opportunities to fail. You might want to retroratchet
this one a lot? At least it more directly targets your goal of getting good
sleep.

The critical flatline idea sounds pretty good though.

Good luck

On Aug 26, 2013 7:29 AM, “Brent Yorgey” byorgey@gmail.com wrote:

I was inspired by some recent threads about beeminding bedtime, insomnia,
etc. to think more carefully about a certain tendency of mine. I
occasionally (perhaps once every week or two) have some mild insomnia, and
when that happens I often get up and do stuff on my computer for a while and
then go back to bed. The problem is that no matter how short of a computer
session I promise myself to have, I invariably get sucked into something
(usually not all that productive to boot, like chatting on IRC, checking
email for the 100th time, etc.) and stay up way later than I would like, and
probably long past the point where I could have fallen asleep had I gone
back to bed.

So, I have informally committed to not using my computer if and when I get
up due to insomnia, but to do something else like read or write (the
old-fashioned way, with books and pens). This happened to me last week and
it worked great – I filled up two whole pages with (what still seem like)
some great ideas, then went back to bed and right to sleep after only 45
minutes.

The problem is that I do not know how long this will remain a novel, fun
thing to do, and I fear that I may akratically succumb to the siren call of
my computer. So I would like to beemind
not-using-a-computer-when-insomniac, but I am unsure how to do it, since (a)
my goal consists in simply NOT doing something, ever, and (b) I only
occasionally even have the opportunity to not-do it, and there is no way to
predict in advance how frequent or infrequent that might be.

Anyone have any ideas? Perhaps I could just create a flat set-a-limit
goal with PPR turned off, so that if I ever enter a data point I will
immediately derail (which is what I would want)? Has anyone ever tried
anything similar?

-Brent

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#9

Ah, that’s a good idea. Yes, I usually “hibernate” my computer at night
which would prevent any scheduled jobs from running.

The remaining issue is that one cannot create Set-A-Limit goals with an
initially flat road. For now, I got around that by creating a Set-A-Limit
goal with an initial rate of 0.1, and then immediately dialing it down to
0. So a data point of 1 will immediately derail me.

-Brent

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Alys lady_alys@oldgods.net wrote:

Brent, do you ever leave your computer on overnight, even when you are
not using it? If you do NOT do that (i.e., if you ALWAYS turn your PC
off before you go to bed, and then turn it back on when you have
insomnia), you could set up a scheduled job that runs every 15 minutes
but only during the hours when you are meant to be asleep. The job
logs a datapoint to a Beeminder goal each time it runs. The Beeminder
goal has a flat road, so ANY data point will make it fail.

Thus you’re letting your PC log your bad behaviour for you, but it
won’t be able to log anything if it’s not on.

On 27 August 2013 01:54, Brent Yorgey byorgey@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks for the f.lux tip – I just installed it! We’ll see if it helps.

-Brent

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Apneet Jolly jolly@ajollylife.com
wrote:

Side note:

Install f.lux - http://justgetflux.com and/or wear

http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S1933X-Eyewear-SCT-Orange-Anti-Fog/dp/B000USRG90

if you are on your computer at night – will help with sleep.

There is also twilight for android, and I think there is f.lux for the
ipod.

The blue light emitted from your computer will impact melatonin
production, and hence sleep.

-Jolly

From: akratics@googlegroups.com [mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Wolf Tivy
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 10:48 AM
To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Tips for beeminding occasional behavior of unknown
frequency?

Beemind locking the computer in a clearly marked box every night.
Basically, beemind some just-doable countermeasure that reduces the
risk.

I don’t know if that in particular will work, but something along those
lines might. A non-beeminder version that is perhaps more effective is
to

install a cron job that locks your computer up between bedtime and wake
time, or disconnects the internet.

More generally, my strategy on beeminding random variables is to beemind
the just-doable preparations that improve probabilities, and then let
the

success flow. For example, I’m beeminding talking to more cool people,
but

indirectly beeminding conversations would be uncontrollable madness;
beeminder can only give you willpower, so if you can’t advance by sheer
force of will whenever you need to, it can’t help. Therefor I beemind
all

the just-doable actions (figure out who to talk to, research them,
contact

them) that lead up to what I actually want.

Another way for your problem is to mark sleeping without insomnia as
success. So, beemind “didn’t use computer last night”, for all reasons
including “didn’t wake up”. This might fail by having your crunch time
not

coincide with your opportunities to fail. You might want to retroratchet
this one a lot? At least it more directly targets your goal of getting
good

sleep.

The critical flatline idea sounds pretty good though.

Good luck

On Aug 26, 2013 7:29 AM, “Brent Yorgey” byorgey@gmail.com wrote:

I was inspired by some recent threads about beeminding bedtime,
insomnia,

etc. to think more carefully about a certain tendency of mine. I
occasionally (perhaps once every week or two) have some mild insomnia,
and

when that happens I often get up and do stuff on my computer for a
while and

then go back to bed. The problem is that no matter how short of a
computer

session I promise myself to have, I invariably get sucked into something
(usually not all that productive to boot, like chatting on IRC, checking
email for the 100th time, etc.) and stay up way later than I would
like, and

probably long past the point where I could have fallen asleep had I gone
back to bed.

So, I have informally committed to not using my computer if and when I
get

up due to insomnia, but to do something else like read or write (the
old-fashioned way, with books and pens). This happened to me last week
and

it worked great – I filled up two whole pages with (what still seem
like)

some great ideas, then went back to bed and right to sleep after only 45
minutes.

The problem is that I do not know how long this will remain a novel, fun
thing to do, and I fear that I may akratically succumb to the siren
call of

my computer. So I would like to beemind
not-using-a-computer-when-insomniac, but I am unsure how to do it,
since (a)

my goal consists in simply NOT doing something, ever, and (b) I only
occasionally even have the opportunity to not-do it, and there is no
way to

predict in advance how frequent or infrequent that might be.

Anyone have any ideas? Perhaps I could just create a flat set-a-limit
goal with PPR turned off, so that if I ever enter a data point I will
immediately derail (which is what I would want)? Has anyone ever tried
anything similar?

-Brent

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#10

The remaining issue is that one cannot create Set-A-Limit goals with an
initially flat road. For now, I got around that by creating a Set-A-Limit
goal with an initial rate of 0.1, and then immediately dialing it down to 0.
So a data point of 1 will immediately derail me.

I might actually be in favor of sticking with this workaround. If
you’re creating a zero-rate set-a-limit goal then you’re probably a
newbee doing it All Wrong and letting you do that will cause even
worse confusion than you already have. If, on the other hand, you’re
Brent Yorgey then you’ll figure out the workaround.

(Just an initial reaction; feel free to push back.)

Tangent: I don’t like the name “Set-A-Limit”. Every Beeminder goal
sets a limit. What we call “set-a-limit” just happens to set an
upper limit instead of a lower one. “Do More” sometimes confuses
people, but I think it’s ok if you think of it as “do more than you’d
do when left to your own devices”. So why don’t we rename
"set-a-limit" to “do less”?

–
http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com

#11

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.comwrote:

The remaining issue is that one cannot create Set-A-Limit goals with an
initially flat road. For now, I got around that by creating a Set-A-Limit
goal with an initial rate of 0.1, and then immediately dialing it down
to 0.
So a data point of 1 will immediately derail me.

I might actually be in favor of sticking with this workaround. If
you’re creating a zero-rate set-a-limit goal then you’re probably a
newbee doing it All Wrong and letting you do that will cause even
worse confusion than you already have. If, on the other hand, you’re
Brent Yorgey then you’ll figure out the workaround.

(Just an initial reaction; feel free to push back.)

I’m certainly very sympathetic to the "might confuse newbees"
argument—the fewer chances newbees have to do unintentional things with
strange consequences, the better. But in that case, how about enabling
initially flat set-a-limit/do-less (I like “do less”, btw) goals as a
premium feature? Maybe something like if you put 0 and you don’t have a
premium plan, it could say “This probably isn’t what you want to do, but if
it is you can get a premium plan”, and if you do have a premium plan it
would just pop up a message with a checkbox like “start with a rate of 0 –
are you sure?”. Or something like that.

-Brent

–
http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com

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#12

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.comwrote:

Tangent: I don’t like the name “Set-A-Limit”. Every Beeminder goal
sets a limit. What we call “set-a-limit” just happens to set an
upper limit instead of a lower one. “Do More” sometimes confuses
people, but I think it’s ok if you think of it as “do more than you’d
do when left to your own devices”. So why don’t we rename
"set-a-limit" to “do less”?

+1 to “do less”

Just yesterday I was laying out an ontology of self-improvement to Maneesh
Sethi (in relation to his new startup, which is evolving awesomely btw) and
I credited Beeminder for anti-akrasia in both “do more” and "do less"
categories, without even realizing that I was categorically correct but, if
you will, nominally incorrect.

#13

My current system is to account for such ‘Sins’ with my do-more MIT (most
important, must do daily achievable task) meta-goal; If I do something I
planned not to, then I add a negative penalty data point. I prefer this to
using a flat line goal, as it helps reporting and minimises clutter.

Thanks Jolly, I hadn’t heard of f.lux before, and have been manually
decreasing screen brightness late at night.

On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 11:41:10 AM UTC+10, Michael J.J. Tiffany wrote:

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Daniel Reeves <dre...@beeminder.com<javascript:>

wrote:

Tangent: I don’t like the name “Set-A-Limit”. Every Beeminder goal
sets a limit. What we call “set-a-limit” just happens to set an
upper limit instead of a lower one. “Do More” sometimes confuses
people, but I think it’s ok if you think of it as “do more than you’d
do when left to your own devices”. So why don’t we rename
"set-a-limit" to “do less”?

+1 to “do less”

Just yesterday I was laying out an ontology of self-improvement to Maneesh
Sethi (in relation to his new startup, which is evolving awesomely btw) and
I credited Beeminder for anti-akrasia in both “do more” and "do less"
categories, without even realizing that I was categorically correct but, if
you will, nominally incorrect.

#14

On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 2:41:10 AM UTC+1, Michael J.J. Tiffany wrote:

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Daniel Reeves <dre...@beeminder.com<javascript:>

wrote:

Tangent: I don’t like the name “Set-A-Limit”. Every Beeminder goal
sets a limit. What we call “set-a-limit” just happens to set an
upper limit instead of a lower one. “Do More” sometimes confuses
people, but I think it’s ok if you think of it as “do more than you’d
do when left to your own devices”. So why don’t we rename
"set-a-limit" to “do less”?

+1 to “do less”

Just yesterday I was laying out an ontology of self-improvement to Maneesh
Sethi (in relation to his new startup, which is evolving awesomely btw) and
I credited Beeminder for anti-akrasia in both “do more” and "do less"
categories, without even realizing that I was categorically correct but, if
you will, nominally incorrect.

+1 as well. It makes it easier to interpret both.