beeminder subscriptions

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use
    Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add
    arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon
    we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that
    tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that
    motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
    initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
    demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this
    stuff for us!

  5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting
pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation
Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re
paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces
too many complications.

Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to put
money on the line for your goal at all?

I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3.
Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would target
more like $5 per month.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.comwrote:

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use
    Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add
    arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon
    we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that
    tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that
    motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
    initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
    demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this
    stuff for us!

  5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting
pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation
Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re
paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

My first reaction was $12 a month is way too steep. I think $5 or under is a better target.

(0) I like this one. Seems super fair. Almost too fair. Does anyone else do this type of pricing? most businesses rely on people continuing to pay even if they don’t use the service regularly. I am thinking gyms and netflix.

This sounds more like a pay per use model (old blockbuster) combined with subscription. Interesting idea. Might create weird behaviors like waiting until a month is over before starting a new beeminder because you don’t want to pay for only 1 weeks worth of use.

(1) Seems to be against the basic philosophy of beeminder. I like the strict rules. Keeps it simple. Less mental wiggle room. Every video game that I learned the code for “god mode” become instantly less interesting.

(2) I thought you could already do this. Would you take it away from the free service?

(3) I already get VIP service for free, and appreciate it. What kind of service will I be getting if I don’t subscribe?

(4) I think this is a great idea. I think it perfectly reasonable for Beeminder to take a set fee off the top for processing and then the rest should go wherever the user determines on the front end. Charity, friend, etc. I don’t like percentage charges. Costs the same on your end whether it is 100 or 10,000. One of the reasons people hate brokers and bankers.

Everyone I tell about Beeminder says the same thing, “there is no way I am giving them money when I mess up.”. I know you aren’t targeting “everyone” but this is a major obstacle for your business.

That being said I would make a donation right now if that was an option on your site.

I have been a user for about 3 months. Would I give $36? Seems a little steep… $20 feels about right, but I don’t know if I would want to pay that every quarter.

Tough because I like the tool and I would like to continue using it indefinitely. Putting money on the line forces me to calculate the long term cumulative costs.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Felty robfelty@gmail.com
Sender: akratics@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:18:56
To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions

I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces
too many complications.

Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to put
money on the line for your goal at all?

I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3.
Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would target
more like $5 per month.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.comwrote:

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use
    Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add
    arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon
    we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that
    tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that
    motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
    initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
    demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this
    stuff for us!

  5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting
pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation
Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re
paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

Danny,

I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be
like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some features
to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I
think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the fact
that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require
subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly slowed.
I would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and
maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple
(lets say more than 3) goals.

I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming akrasia.

I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are
already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their
roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental to
beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making less
money in the long run.

I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only
$8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep.

I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again,
isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances
since they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription
model will make you more money in the long run than your current model, but
of course I haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when
they drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive
numbers of subscribers.

-Jill

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty robfelty@gmail.com wrote:

I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces
too many complications.

Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to put
money on the line for your goal at all?

I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3.
Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would target
more like $5 per month.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.comwrote:

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use
    Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add
    arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon
    we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that
    tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that
    motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
    initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
    demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this
    stuff for us!

  5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting
pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation
Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re
paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

Rob, Jake, Jill, thanks so much for these insights!

Let’s not get hung up on the price yet. As David Yang just pointed
out, it’s possible we should be thinking about higher prices so
you’re not tempted to compare with netflix! :slight_smile:
It’s all very relative. Think about plus or minus $12 on your gym
membership. If one gym had a much higher probability of getting you to
actually go to it, a $12 differential would seem trivial, right?

One more defense of high prices: Companies that charge just a few
dollars a month are counting on you to think of it as approximately
nothing and never think about it, whether you keep using the service
or not. (I’m seriously annoyed at the probably $50 per movie I’ve
probably effectively paid netflix because I’ve been too damn akratic
to ever get around to canceling it, or because I always think that
Real Soon Now things will slow down enough for me to relax and watch
movies once in a while and make that – admittedly super cheap –
subscription worthwhile!)

So, yeah, we don’t want to be like that! We want to focus on people
for whom Beeminder is, no exaggeration, life-changing. Cf
beeminder.com/testimonials

But, yes, we want it to continue to stay free for less hardcore users.
Like your first attempt is always free and it always stays free as
long as you stay on your yellow brick road. Maybe we’ll add limits to
how many goals you can create.

(More specific responses in separate email.)

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud veganjill@gmail.com wrote:

Danny,

I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be
like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some features
to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I
think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the fact
that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require
subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly slowed. I
would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and
maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple (lets
say more than 3) goals.

I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming akrasia.

I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are
already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their
roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental to
beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making less
money in the long run.

I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only
$8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep.

I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again,
isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances since
they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model will
make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of course I
haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they
drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive numbers
of subscribers.

-Jill

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty robfelty@gmail.com wrote:

I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces
too many complications.

Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to put
money on the line for your goal at all?

I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3.
Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would target
more like $5 per month.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use
    Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add
    arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon
    we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that
    tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that
    motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
    initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
    demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this
    stuff for us!

  5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting
pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation
Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re
paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

Jumping the fee schedule:

We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times
in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for
free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can
immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one
person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really
keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by
the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that
bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those
initial derailments.

And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting
without pledging if you want.

God-like powers:

We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers
if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to
commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if
you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that.

“No way I am giving them money when I mess up”:

Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on
this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re
either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is
crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use
a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just
cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much
more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point.

PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of
beeminder.com/money but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How
about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty
of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case
would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on
blog.beeminder.com !

PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people
to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is
still secret)!

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud veganjill@gmail.com wrote:

Danny,

I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be
like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some features
to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I
think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the fact
that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require
subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly slowed. I
would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and
maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple (lets
say more than 3) goals.

I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming akrasia.

I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are
already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their
roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental to
beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making less
money in the long run.

I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only
$8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep.

I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again,
isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances since
they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model will
make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of course I
haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they
drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive numbers
of subscribers.

-Jill

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty robfelty@gmail.com wrote:

I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces
too many complications.

Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to put
money on the line for your goal at all?

I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3.
Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would target
more like $5 per month.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use
    Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add
    arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon
    we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that
    tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that
    motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
    initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
    demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this
    stuff for us!

  5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting
pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation
Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re
paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

[0]: When would this feature ever become relevant, if you have any
long term goals?

[1]: That’s a downright anti-feature. I would pay to avoid this. The
strict one-week akrasia horizon trains your ability to think ahead,
which would be undermined by a cheat mode.

[2]: Possibly useful. Not something I would pay to get access to.

[3]: Nice but vague.

[4]: I like that the pledges go to you. Feature-value to me: 0$
How about letting friends pledge on your goals instead? This could be
motivating since you don’t want to be the reason they lose money.

So none of the above features would move me (users like me) to pay a
monthly fee.

Premium package I would pay up to 8$/month for:

  • Unlimited graphs (put a cap on number of graphs for free users)
  • Organize graphs by least number of safe days (Make it easier not
    drive of road, when you have a lot of goals)
  • Group goals by categories (When you get above a certain amount of
    goals, the user page layout gets cluttered and confusing)
  • Timely reminders about upcomming events and deadlines relevant to my
    goals (a user-specified version of your Thansgiving-reminder)

I like Daniel’s line of thought here.

There is a basic marketing problem if your most involved users are
drawing connections to Netflix.

The truth is that Beeminder couldn’t be more different that Netflix.
Netflix is all about consumption. It is reasonably priced because it
is competing against other forms of consumption like cable tv, video
games, etc. I don’t have cable because I 1) I don’t want to be
tempted to watch it all the time and 2) think it is too expensive for
what I would use it for. With Netflix I reduced my overhead and also
found that I watch much less TV.

You could argue that you can get more calories for cheaper if you eat
junk food but we all know (whether we follow it or not) that an
investment in healthy food will pay off in myriad other ways.

Beeminder is about improving yourself. A tool to hold yourself
accountable when willpower alone has failed you in the past.
Beeminder is a tool you might use to reduce your Consumption and
increase your Creation. To reduce your junk food intake and increase
your health food intake.

I have been using Beeminder to increase the amount of time I practice
guitar and write daily. Both of these, in my opinion, are forms of
Creation, and I have valued having them in my life. Is Beeminder the
only way I could have made this progress? Probably not. But it is
one way, and so far it has been effective for me.

I shouldn’t be comparing Beeminder to Netflix or Cable. I should be
comparing it to other cost of investing in my quality of life.

Some reoccuring costs of investing in my quality of life:
~$100/month - extra cost of higher quality food ingredients
$60 /month - gym membership
$40 /month - fish oil supplements
$3/ month - Vitamin D3 supplement
$3/ month - Multivitamin

Helping someone make lasting and positive change in their life is
priceless (cliche statement, but true on some level.) If Beeminder
doesn’t work for someone then they aren’t going to become a member.
If beeminder does work then they need to be convinced of the value of
the service and pay accordingly.

On 1/28/12, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Rob, Jake, Jill, thanks so much for these insights!

Let’s not get hung up on the price yet. As David Yang just pointed
out, it’s possible we should be thinking about higher prices so
you’re not tempted to compare with netflix! :slight_smile:
It’s all very relative. Think about plus or minus $12 on your gym
membership. If one gym had a much higher probability of getting you to
actually go to it, a $12 differential would seem trivial, right?

One more defense of high prices: Companies that charge just a few
dollars a month are counting on you to think of it as approximately
nothing and never think about it, whether you keep using the service
or not. (I’m seriously annoyed at the probably $50 per movie I’ve
probably effectively paid netflix because I’ve been too damn akratic
to ever get around to canceling it, or because I always think that
Real Soon Now things will slow down enough for me to relax and watch
movies once in a while and make that – admittedly super cheap –
subscription worthwhile!)

So, yeah, we don’t want to be like that! We want to focus on people
for whom Beeminder is, no exaggeration, life-changing. Cf
beeminder.com/testimonials

But, yes, we want it to continue to stay free for less hardcore users.
Like your first attempt is always free and it always stays free as
long as you stay on your yellow brick road. Maybe we’ll add limits to
how many goals you can create.

(More specific responses in separate email.)

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud veganjill@gmail.com wrote:

Danny,

I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be
like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some
features
to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I
think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the
fact
that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require
subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly slowed.
I
would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and
maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple
(lets
say more than 3) goals.

I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming akrasia.

I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are
already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their
roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental to
beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making less
money in the long run.

I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only
$8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep.

I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again,
isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances
since
they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model
will
make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of course
I
haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they
drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive numbers
of subscribers.

-Jill

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty robfelty@gmail.com wrote:

I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces
too many complications.

Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to
put
money on the line for your goal at all?

I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3.
Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would
target
more like $5 per month.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use
    Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add
    arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon
    we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that
    tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that
    motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
    initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
    demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this
    stuff for us!

  5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting
pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation
Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re
paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

Daniel,

Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where my mind is.

I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder Premium Subscriber.

Please send me the secret link.

Anyone else out there going to join me?

Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
Sender: akratics@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05
To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions

Jumping the fee schedule:

We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times
in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for
free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can
immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one
person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really
keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by
the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that
bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those
initial derailments.

And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting
without pledging if you want.

God-like powers:

We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers
if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to
commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if
you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that.

“No way I am giving them money when I mess up”:

Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on
this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re
either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is
crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use
a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just
cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much
more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point.

PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of
beeminder.com/money but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How
about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty
of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case
would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on
blog.beeminder.com !

PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people
to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is
still secret)!

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud veganjill@gmail.com wrote:

Danny,

I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be
like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some features
to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I
think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the fact
that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require
subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly slowed. I
would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and
maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple (lets
say more than 3) goals.

I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming akrasia.

I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are
already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their
roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental to
beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making less
money in the long run.

I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only
$8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep.

I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again,
isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances since
they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model will
make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of course I
haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they
drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive numbers
of subscribers.

-Jill

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty robfelty@gmail.com wrote:

I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces
too many complications.

Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to put
money on the line for your goal at all?

I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3.
Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would target
more like $5 per month.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use
    Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add
    arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon
    we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that
    tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that
    motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
    initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
    demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this
    stuff for us!

  5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting
pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation
Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re
paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

I’m in.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Jake Jenkins j2jenkins@gmail.com wrote:

Daniel,

Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where my
mind is.

I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder Premium
Subscriber.

Please send me the secret link.

Anyone else out there going to join me?

Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
Sender: akratics@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05
To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions

Jumping the fee schedule:

We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times
in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for
free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can
immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one
person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really
keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by
the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that
bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those
initial derailments.

And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting
without pledging if you want.

God-like powers:

We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers
if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to
commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if
you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that.

“No way I am giving them money when I mess up”:

Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on
this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re
either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is
crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use
a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just
cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much
more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point.

PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of
beeminder.com/money but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How
about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty
of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case
would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on
blog.beeminder.com !

PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people
to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is
still secret)!

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud veganjill@gmail.com wrote:

Danny,

I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be
like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some
features
to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I
think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the
fact
that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require
subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly
slowed. I
would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and
maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple
(lets
say more than 3) goals.

I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming
akrasia.

I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are
already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their
roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental to
beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making less
money in the long run.

I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only
$8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep.

I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again,
isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances
since
they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model
will
make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of
course I
haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they
drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive
numbers
of subscribers.

-Jill

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty robfelty@gmail.com wrote:

I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It introduces
too many complications.

Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to
put

money on the line for your goal at all?

I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3.
Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would
target

more like $5 per month.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use
    Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add
    arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon
    we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that
    tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that
    motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
    initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
    demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this
    stuff for us!

  5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting
pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation
Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re
paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

Yeah, none of these are things I would really feel compelled to pay for.
Things I might pay for include:

  1. A Pomodoro-style app that automatically updates Beeminder when I
    complete a block: http://pomodoro.ugolandini.com/
    (A more user-friendly version of TagTime might work too, but I’m not a fan
    of the “interrupt you while you work” model.)

  2. Being able to do more fancy stuff with the data. The value of the data
    goes beyond just tracking for commitment contracts, I think – it’s a great
    potential device for actually understanding what our working habits are
    and how to change them. For a while I’ve wanted graphs that are a function
    of other graphs, so that I could, for example, take the sum of a few graphs
    to see how many total hours I’ve worked, or the ratio of two graphs to see
    if they’re correlated. This would undoubtedly be a lot of work to implement
    but it would really push the “data nerd” angle of Beeminder and distinguish
    it even more from all the other commitment contract websites popping up
    lately.

(Sorry if this is off-topic.)

Isaac

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 9:17 AM, bloch stefanbloch@gmail.com wrote:

[0]: When would this feature ever become relevant, if you have any
long term goals?

[1]: That’s a downright anti-feature. I would pay to avoid this. The
strict one-week akrasia horizon trains your ability to think ahead,
which would be undermined by a cheat mode.

[2]: Possibly useful. Not something I would pay to get access to.

[3]: Nice but vague.

[4]: I like that the pledges go to you. Feature-value to me: 0$
How about letting friends pledge on your goals instead? This could be
motivating since you don’t want to be the reason they lose money.

So none of the above features would move me (users like me) to pay a
monthly fee.

Premium package I would pay up to 8$/month for:

  • Unlimited graphs (put a cap on number of graphs for free users)
  • Organize graphs by least number of safe days (Make it easier not
    drive of road, when you have a lot of goals)
  • Group goals by categories (When you get above a certain amount of
    goals, the user page layout gets cluttered and confusing)
  • Timely reminders about upcomming events and deadlines relevant to my
    goals (a user-specified version of your Thansgiving-reminder)

Thanks so much, Jake and David! We’ll send you the secret subscription link.

Here’s someone else who seems like a good candidate for subscriptions
(in theory, anyway), if they can get that much motivation without
pledging:
http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 10:38, David Yang david.g.yang@gmail.com wrote:

I’m in.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Jake Jenkins j2jenkins@gmail.com wrote:

Daniel,

Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where my
mind is.

I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder Premium
Subscriber.

Please send me the secret link.

Anyone else out there going to join me?

Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
Sender: akratics@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05
To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions

Jumping the fee schedule:

We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times
in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for
free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can
immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one
person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really
keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by
the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that
bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those
initial derailments.

And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting
without pledging if you want.

God-like powers:

We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers
if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to
commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if
you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that.

“No way I am giving them money when I mess up”:

Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on
this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re
either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is
crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use
a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just
cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much
more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point.

PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of
beeminder.com/money but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How
about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty
of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case
would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on
blog.beeminder.com !

PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people
to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is
still secret)!

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud veganjill@gmail.com wrote:

Danny,

I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be
like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some
features
to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I
think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the
fact
that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require
subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly
slowed. I
would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and
maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple
(lets
say more than 3) goals.

I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming
akrasia.

I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are
already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their
roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental
to
beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making
less
money in the long run.

I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only
$8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep.

I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again,
isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances
since
they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model
will
make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of
course I
haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they
drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive
numbers
of subscribers.

-Jill

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty robfelty@gmail.com wrote:

I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It
introduces
too many complications.

Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to
put
money on the line for your goal at all?

I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3.
Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would
target
more like $5 per month.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use
    Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add
    arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon
    we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that
    tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that
    motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
    initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
    demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this
    stuff for us!

  5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting
pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation
Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re
paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

Update on subscriptions: they’re not ready yet! We’ve got a plan
though! Stay tuned…

In other news, we just tweeted our 365th daily UVI (user-visible improvement).
We’ve come a long way, considering that a year ago we were still 8
months away from publicly launching. (We should’ve done that much
sooner, in retrospect. Though it was surprisingly hard to get it to
the point that most people could create and manage their goals without
manual intervention from me and Bethany.)

It’s exciting to imagine what Beeminder will be like in another year.
It feels so good to be bound to that beeminder.com/meta/uvi road and
know that there’s no way we can allow ourselves to stagnate or get
totally derailed by raising funding or any of the other ways startups
flounder.

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 02:05, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Thanks so much, Jake and David! We’ll send you the secret subscription link.

Here’s someone else who seems like a good candidate for subscriptions
(in theory, anyway), if they can get that much motivation without
pledging:
http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 10:38, David Yang david.g.yang@gmail.com wrote:

I’m in.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Jake Jenkins j2jenkins@gmail.com wrote:

Daniel,

Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where my
mind is.

I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder Premium
Subscriber.

Please send me the secret link.

Anyone else out there going to join me?

Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
Sender: akratics@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05
To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions

Jumping the fee schedule:

We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times
in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for
free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can
immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one
person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really
keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by
the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that
bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those
initial derailments.

And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting
without pledging if you want.

God-like powers:

We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers
if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to
commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if
you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that.

“No way I am giving them money when I mess up”:

Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on
this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re
either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is
crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use
a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just
cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much
more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point.

PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of
beeminder.com/money but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How
about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty
of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case
would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on
blog.beeminder.com !

PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people
to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is
still secret)!

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud veganjill@gmail.com wrote:

Danny,

I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be
like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some
features
to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I
think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the
fact
that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require
subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly
slowed. I
would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and
maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple
(lets
say more than 3) goals.

I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming
akrasia.

I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are
already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their
roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental
to
beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making
less
money in the long run.

I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only
$8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep.

I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again,
isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances
since
they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model
will
make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of
course I
haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they
drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive
numbers
of subscribers.

-Jill

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty robfelty@gmail.com wrote:

I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It
introduces
too many complications.

Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to
put
money on the line for your goal at all?

I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3.
Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would
target
more like $5 per month.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use
    Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add
    arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon
    we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that
    tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that
    motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
    initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
    demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this
    stuff for us!

  5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting
pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation
Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re
paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

I’m resurrecting this year-old thread to say that we’ve finally
deployed subscriptions! Here’s what I just tweeted (@bmndr):

Fun fact: you have to spend >$200 to get to an $810 commitment
contract on Beeminder. And some people do! But starting now…
You can jump straight to any pledge amount you want with our premium
plan for the low, low price of $40/month (includes other perqs too)

Everyone who participated in this thread a year ago gets a steep
discount. Yay! (I’ll ping you separately with a secret link.)

(It’s fascinating reading this old thread. One of the things that
invalidates much of that old discussion is precommit-to-recommit. Like
with our original intrepid guinea pig who was willing to pay a lot to
jump to a high pledge level. He was wholly motivated by the danger of
sticking his head in the sand and not re-railing himself. So people
like him may no longer care about subscribing. They’ll be happy to
just ride out the pledge schedule till the amounts get scary. That
obviously works out great for Beeminder as well.)

Thanks again everyone!
Danny, Bethany, Andy, and Team

PS: If you want a peek way behind the curtain, check out our trello
card about all this:
https://trello.com/card/subscriptions/4f079dbc30a67d1864012d6b/483

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 12:33 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Update on subscriptions: they’re not ready yet! We’ve got a plan
though! Stay tuned…

In other news, we just tweeted our 365th daily UVI (user-visible improvement).
We’ve come a long way, considering that a year ago we were still 8
months away from publicly launching. (We should’ve done that much
sooner, in retrospect. Though it was surprisingly hard to get it to
the point that most people could create and manage their goals without
manual intervention from me and Bethany.)

It’s exciting to imagine what Beeminder will be like in another year.
It feels so good to be bound to that beeminder.com/meta/uvi road and
know that there’s no way we can allow ourselves to stagnate or get
totally derailed by raising funding or any of the other ways startups
flounder.

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 02:05, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Thanks so much, Jake and David! We’ll send you the secret subscription link.

Here’s someone else who seems like a good candidate for subscriptions
(in theory, anyway), if they can get that much motivation without
pledging:
http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 10:38, David Yang david.g.yang@gmail.com wrote:

I’m in.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Jake Jenkins j2jenkins@gmail.com wrote:

Daniel,

Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where my
mind is.

I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder Premium
Subscriber.

Please send me the secret link.

Anyone else out there going to join me?

Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
Sender: akratics@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05
To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions

Jumping the fee schedule:

We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times
in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for
free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can
immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one
person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really
keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by
the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that
bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those
initial derailments.

And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting
without pledging if you want.

God-like powers:

We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers
if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to
commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if
you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that.

“No way I am giving them money when I mess up”:

Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on
this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re
either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is
crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use
a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just
cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much
more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point.

PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of
beeminder.com/money but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How
about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty
of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case
would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on
blog.beeminder.com !

PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people
to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is
still secret)!

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud veganjill@gmail.com wrote:

Danny,

I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will this be
like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some
features
to all people for free and then with additional features for a cost? I
think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to the
fact
that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to require
subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly
slowed. I
would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place and
maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track multiple
(lets
say more than 3) goals.

I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming
akrasia.

I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if they are
already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on their
roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is detrimental
to
beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making
less
money in the long run.

I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is only
$8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep.

I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then again,
isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of finances
since
they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription model
will
make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of
course I
haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they
drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive
numbers
of subscribers.

-Jill

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty robfelty@gmail.com wrote:

I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It
introduces
too many complications.

Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you have to
put
money on the line for your goal at all?

I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only $3.
Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I would
target
more like $5 per month.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you don’t use
    Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can add
    arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc. Soon
    we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if that
    tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount that
    motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
    initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
    demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig this
    stuff for us!

  5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far (collecting
pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your Motivation
Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and you’re
paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com

Hi Daniel,

it’s interesting to see how your business model evolves in time.

I have a question: what about a tagtime goal? Does it require the custom
goal, available only to premium? Or a Do more goal will do the same?

On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 7:12 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.comwrote:

I’m resurrecting this year-old thread to say that we’ve finally
deployed subscriptions! Here’s what I just tweeted (@bmndr):

Fun fact: you have to spend >$200 to get to an $810 commitment
contract on Beeminder. And some people do! But starting now…
You can jump straight to any pledge amount you want with our premium
plan for the low, low price of $40/month (includes other perqs too)

Everyone who participated in this thread a year ago gets a steep
discount. Yay! (I’ll ping you separately with a secret link.)

(It’s fascinating reading this old thread. One of the things that
invalidates much of that old discussion is precommit-to-recommit. Like
with our original intrepid guinea pig who was willing to pay a lot to
jump to a high pledge level. He was wholly motivated by the danger of
sticking his head in the sand and not re-railing himself. So people
like him may no longer care about subscribing. They’ll be happy to
just ride out the pledge schedule till the amounts get scary. That
obviously works out great for Beeminder as well.)

Thanks again everyone!
Danny, Bethany, Andy, and Team

PS: If you want a peek way behind the curtain, check out our trello
card about all this:
https://trello.com/card/subscriptions/4f079dbc30a67d1864012d6b/483

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 12:33 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Update on subscriptions: they’re not ready yet! We’ve got a plan
though! Stay tuned…

In other news, we just tweeted our 365th daily UVI (user-visible
improvement).
We’ve come a long way, considering that a year ago we were still 8
months away from publicly launching. (We should’ve done that much
sooner, in retrospect. Though it was surprisingly hard to get it to
the point that most people could create and manage their goals without
manual intervention from me and Bethany.)

It’s exciting to imagine what Beeminder will be like in another year.
It feels so good to be bound to that beeminder.com/meta/uvi road and
know that there’s no way we can allow ourselves to stagnate or get
totally derailed by raising funding or any of the other ways startups
flounder.

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 02:05, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Thanks so much, Jake and David! We’ll send you the secret subscription
link.

Here’s someone else who seems like a good candidate for subscriptions
(in theory, anyway), if they can get that much motivation without
pledging:

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 10:38, David Yang david.g.yang@gmail.com
wrote:

I’m in.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Jake Jenkins j2jenkins@gmail.com
wrote:

Daniel,

Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where
my

mind is.

I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder
Premium

Subscriber.

Please send me the secret link.

Anyone else out there going to join me?

Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
Sender: akratics@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05
To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions

Jumping the fee schedule:

We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times
in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for
free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you can
immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one
person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really
keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by
the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that
bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those
initial derailments.

And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting
without pledging if you want.

God-like powers:

We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers
if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready to
commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if
you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that.

“No way I am giving them money when I mess up”:

Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on
this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re
either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is
crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to use
a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would just
cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with much
more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point.

PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of
beeminder.com/money but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How
about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty
of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your case
would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on
blog.beeminder.com !

PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people
to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is
still secret)!

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud veganjill@gmail.com
wrote:

Danny,

I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will
this be

like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some
features
to all people for free and then with additional features for a
cost? I

think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to
the

fact
that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to
require

subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly
slowed. I
would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place
and

maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track
multiple

(lets
say more than 3) goals.

I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming
akrasia.

I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if
they are

already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on
their

roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is
detrimental

to
beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up making
less
money in the long run.

I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is
only

$8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep.

I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then
again,

isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of
finances

since
they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription
model

will
make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of
course I
haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they
drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive
numbers
of subscribers.

-Jill

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty robfelty@gmail.com
wrote:

I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It
introduces
too many complications.

Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you
have to

put
money on the line for your goal at all?

I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only
$3.

Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I
would

target
more like $5 per month.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves <
dreeves@beeminder.com>

wrote:

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you
    don’t use

Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  1. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can
    add

arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc.
Soon

we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if
that

tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  1. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount
    that

motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  1. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig
    this

stuff for us!

  1. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far
(collecting

pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your
Motivation

Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and
you’re

paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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good question! either Do More or Set A Limit should work for TagTime.
I’ll update the TagTime docs. [and done]

btw, we’re getting some backlash already on $40/month. here’s our
latest thinking:

Free short-circuiting needs to be pretty expensive since our whole
livelihood so far is from people climbing the pledge schedule. But if
we just add a tier for everything but short-circuiting for $10/month
I think we’re getting the best of all worlds. Or maybe 3 tiers:

  • $5/month for just tips of the day and custom goals
  • $10/month to also be able to get rid of old goals
  • $40/month to also shortcircuit for free

On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 2:12 AM, Alessandro Cuttin a.f.cuttin@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Daniel,

it’s interesting to see how your business model evolves in time.

I have a question: what about a tagtime goal? Does it require the custom
goal, available only to premium? Or a Do more goal will do the same?

On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 7:12 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

I’m resurrecting this year-old thread to say that we’ve finally
deployed subscriptions! Here’s what I just tweeted (@bmndr):

Fun fact: you have to spend >$200 to get to an $810 commitment
contract on Beeminder. And some people do! But starting now…
You can jump straight to any pledge amount you want with our premium
plan for the low, low price of $40/month (includes other perqs too)

Everyone who participated in this thread a year ago gets a steep
discount. Yay! (I’ll ping you separately with a secret link.)

(It’s fascinating reading this old thread. One of the things that
invalidates much of that old discussion is precommit-to-recommit. Like
with our original intrepid guinea pig who was willing to pay a lot to
jump to a high pledge level. He was wholly motivated by the danger of
sticking his head in the sand and not re-railing himself. So people
like him may no longer care about subscribing. They’ll be happy to
just ride out the pledge schedule till the amounts get scary. That
obviously works out great for Beeminder as well.)

Thanks again everyone!
Danny, Bethany, Andy, and Team

PS: If you want a peek way behind the curtain, check out our trello
card about all this:
https://trello.com/card/subscriptions/4f079dbc30a67d1864012d6b/483

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 12:33 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Update on subscriptions: they’re not ready yet! We’ve got a plan
though! Stay tuned…

In other news, we just tweeted our 365th daily UVI (user-visible
improvement).
We’ve come a long way, considering that a year ago we were still 8
months away from publicly launching. (We should’ve done that much
sooner, in retrospect. Though it was surprisingly hard to get it to
the point that most people could create and manage their goals without
manual intervention from me and Bethany.)

It’s exciting to imagine what Beeminder will be like in another year.
It feels so good to be bound to that beeminder.com/meta/uvi road and
know that there’s no way we can allow ourselves to stagnate or get
totally derailed by raising funding or any of the other ways startups
flounder.

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 02:05, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Thanks so much, Jake and David! We’ll send you the secret subscription
link.

Here’s someone else who seems like a good candidate for subscriptions
(in theory, anyway), if they can get that much motivation without
pledging:

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=269398006460025&id=712276645

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 10:38, David Yang david.g.yang@gmail.com
wrote:

I’m in.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Jake Jenkins j2jenkins@gmail.com
wrote:

Daniel,

Building off my thoughts from yesterday, I am putting my money where
my
mind is.

I would like to take you up on your offer to become a Beeminder
Premium
Subscriber.

Please send me the secret link.

Anyone else out there going to join me?

Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
Sender: akratics@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:46:05
To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: akratics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: beeminder subscriptions

Jumping the fee schedule:

We’ve adjusted how much you can jump the fee schedule a couple times
in the past and we are indeed tempted to eliminate fee-jumping for
free users. Currently you can jump 3 levels, I think it is. So you
can
immediately pledge up to $30 and skip the $5 and $10 levels. The one
person who has taken us up on the subscription deal so far was really
keen to jump to $270 because he knew that he wouldn’t be motivated by
the lower amounts. And it wasn’t paying the lower amounts that
bothered him, it was the risk that he would fail to reset after those
initial derailments.

And, yes, if you’re paying a subscription you can keep reseting
without pledging if you want.

God-like powers:

We think we can get the best of both worlds with the god-like powers
if we make it easy and natural to relinquish them when you’re ready
to
commit. And it may be moot anyway: there are already ways to cheat if
you really want to. Anyway, we’ll experiment with that.

“No way I am giving them money when I mess up”:

Yeah, we have to figure out how to keep people from being hung up on
this. Of course most people who say that are just saying that they’re
either not akratic so the whole concept of commitment devices is
crazy, or they are akratic but just not of the right psychology to
use
a commitment device to fix it. For example, a lot of people would
just
cheat and weasel out and so would require commitment devices with
much
more teeth than we’re willing to entertain at this point.

PS: Jake, we do have a donation button at the bottom of
beeminder.com/money but we’d rather convince you to subscribe! How
about if we give you, say, a $50 credit, which should give us plenty
of time to address these concerns? Actually a $100 credit in your
case
would be the least we could do after your amazing guest post on
blog.beeminder.com !

PPS: Let’s make that offer broader: $50 credit for the first 5 people
to subscribe. Reply to me if you’re game (the subscription link is
still secret)!

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:11, Jill Renaud veganjill@gmail.com
wrote:

Danny,

I was wondering a few things about the subscription model. Will
this be
like some sorta “reddit gold” ex: beeminder is available with some
features
to all people for free and then with additional features for a
cost? I
think that the current growth of user base is due in large part to
the
fact
that it is free to start a goal. I think that if you were to
require
subscription to join beeminder, you would see your growth greatly
slowed. I
would suggest keeping the current (non-subscription) model in place
and
maybe having a beeminder premium for people who want to track
multiple
(lets
say more than 3) goals.

I think that god like powers would only interfere with overcoming
akrasia.

I agree with Rob’s point about #2. Maybe people will decide if
they are
already paying a subscription fee they shouldn’t have to wager on
their
roads and have infinite free resets, etc. I think this is
detrimental
to
beeminder as a tool to fight akrasia and also you may wind up
making
less
money in the long run.

I also agree with Rob’s point about pricing – netflix streaming is
only
$8/month. So $12/month seems a little steep.

I do like the idea of specifying who your pledges go to, but then
again,
isn’t that just hurting beeminder in the long run in terms of
finances
since
they won’t collect on lost goals? I can’t see how a subscription
model
will
make you more money in the long run than your current model, but of
course I
haven’t crunched the numbers. Just learn from netflix – when they
drastically tried to change their business model they lost massive
numbers
of subscribers.

-Jill

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Rob Felty robfelty@gmail.com
wrote:

I think 0,2,3, and 4 sound good - I think 1 is a bad idea. It
introduces
too many complications.

Regarding #2 - if you are already paying a monthly fee, do you
have to
put
money on the line for your goal at all?

I think $12 a month is a bit steep though. Skype premium is only
$3.
Netflix streaming only is somewhere around $10-12 per month. I
would
target
more like $5 per month.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Daniel Reeves
dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Hi Akratics,
We’re hoping to get your feedback on how many of the following
premium features it would take for you to feel like it was worth
paying $12/month for Beeminder:

  1. No need to remember to cancel your subscription – if you
    don’t use
    Beeminder all month, you’re not charged for that month. [1]

  2. You get god-like powers over your yellow brick road: you can
    add
    arbitrary flat spots, change the steepness retroactively, etc.
    Soon
    we’ll add the ability to relinquish that control selectively, if
    that
    tempts you to cheat on your contracts.

  3. You can jump the pledge schedule – go straight to an amount
    that
    motivates you to stay on track instead of suffering through a few
    initial derailments (which always entails the risk of getting
    demoralized and not resetting at all!).

  4. Serious VIP treatment for the brave souls who first guinea pig
    this
    stuff for us!

  5. Specify who your forfeited pledges go to. (This one isn’t
    implemented yet, just seeing what people think.)

Danny and Bethany

[1] It infuriates me when companies profit off my akrasia. I want
Beeminder to only profit off of fixing akrasia! [2]

[2] A funny thing to say, given our business model so far
(collecting
pledges on failed goals), but I’m serious: paying those pledges
is
just part of climbing the fee schedule till you hit your
Motivation
Point. Beeminder injects massive motivation along the way and
you’re
paying in proportion to the motivation Beeminder provides and in
proportion to how badly you need Beeminder!


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


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http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com