we're ready to launch Beeminder Premium for real

Thanks so much to all of you who’ve been helping us think through our
premium plans.
We’re about ready to announce this!

beeminder.com/premium

We’d love to have one last discussion here on Akratics Anonymous before we do.

Thanks again, everyone!
Danny and Bethany and Andy

PS: Great post by Jake Jenkins making the “don’t be a free user” argument:
http://j2jenkins.com/2013/04/01/choosing-to-invest-in-beeminder/
(see also my clarifications in the comments)


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com

I for one will gladly subscribe. However I’m trying to understand how
"Freebees" fit into the picture. Say, what will happen to my existing
pledgeless goals if I sign up for “Bee Lite” and not for “Plan Bee”? Do
backburnered, derailed, and/or completed pledgeless goals count toward the
Freebee limit? etc.?

-Brent

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Thanks so much to all of you who’ve been helping us think through our
premium plans.
We’re about ready to announce this!

beeminder.com/premium

We’d love to have one last discussion here on Akratics Anonymous before we
do.

Thanks again, everyone!
Danny and Bethany and Andy

PS: Great post by Jake Jenkins making the “don’t be a free user” argument:
http://j2jenkins.com/2013/04/01/choosing-to-invest-in-beeminder/
(see also my clarifications in the comments)


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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Yay! Thanks Brent!
As for freebees, we grandfathered everyone, so it’s just 7 freebees
(goals with no pledge) starting now (or starting a couple days ago
when we deployed that).

(Btw, lack of freebees isn’t really all that onerous, especially if
you start with a week of flat spot, as is the default. You can pretty
much guarantee you’ll never have to pay pledges even on highly
experimental goals.)

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Brent Yorgey byorgey@gmail.com wrote:

I for one will gladly subscribe. However I’m trying to understand how
"Freebees" fit into the picture. Say, what will happen to my existing
pledgeless goals if I sign up for “Bee Lite” and not for “Plan Bee”? Do
backburnered, derailed, and/or completed pledgeless goals count toward the
Freebee limit? etc.?

-Brent

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Thanks so much to all of you who’ve been helping us think through our
premium plans.
We’re about ready to announce this!

beeminder.com/premium

We’d love to have one last discussion here on Akratics Anonymous before we
do.

Thanks again, everyone!
Danny and Bethany and Andy

PS: Great post by Jake Jenkins making the “don’t be a free user” argument:
http://j2jenkins.com/2013/04/01/choosing-to-invest-in-beeminder/
(see also my clarifications in the comments)


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Yay! Thanks Brent!
As for freebees, we grandfathered everyone, so it’s just 7 freebees
(goals with no pledge) starting now (or starting a couple days ago
when we deployed that).

Ah, OK, good to know!

(Btw, lack of freebees isn’t really all that onerous, especially if
you start with a week of flat spot, as is the default. You can pretty
much guarantee you’ll never have to pay pledges even on highly
experimental goals.)

Indeed, which is why I was only wondering what would happen to existing
goals.

-Brent

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Brent Yorgey byorgey@gmail.com wrote:

I for one will gladly subscribe. However I’m trying to understand how
"Freebees" fit into the picture. Say, what will happen to my existing
pledgeless goals if I sign up for “Bee Lite” and not for “Plan Bee”? Do
backburnered, derailed, and/or completed pledgeless goals count toward
the
Freebee limit? etc.?

-Brent

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Thanks so much to all of you who’ve been helping us think through our
premium plans.
We’re about ready to announce this!

beeminder.com/premium

We’d love to have one last discussion here on Akratics Anonymous before
we

do.

Thanks again, everyone!
Danny and Bethany and Andy

PS: Great post by Jake Jenkins making the "don’t be a free user"
argument:

http://j2jenkins.com/2013/04/01/choosing-to-invest-in-beeminder/
(see also my clarifications in the comments)


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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an

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http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


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So, I already signed up for Premium and now when I click on that link it
says “You have signed up.” Anyway I can see what new users are seeing?

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Thanks so much to all of you who’ve been helping us think through our
premium plans.
We’re about ready to announce this!

beeminder.com/premium

We’d love to have one last discussion here on Akratics Anonymous before we
do.

Thanks again, everyone!
Danny and Bethany and Andy

PS: Great post by Jake Jenkins making the “don’t be a free user” argument:
http://j2jenkins.com/2013/04/01/choosing-to-invest-in-beeminder/
(see also my clarifications in the comments)


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

oh, ha, yeah, we need to hurry and finish the feature where you can
switch plans, etc, without emailing us. then you’ll always see that
same page.

in the meantime, you can sign in as this test user to check it out:
username: test2206
password: akranon

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:02 PM, Jake Jenkins j2jenkins@gmail.com wrote:

So, I already signed up for Premium and now when I click on that link it
says “You have signed up.” Anyway I can see what new users are seeing?

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Thanks so much to all of you who’ve been helping us think through our
premium plans.
We’re about ready to announce this!

beeminder.com/premium

We’d love to have one last discussion here on Akratics Anonymous before we
do.

Thanks again, everyone!
Danny and Bethany and Andy

PS: Great post by Jake Jenkins making the “don’t be a free user” argument:
http://j2jenkins.com/2013/04/01/choosing-to-invest-in-beeminder/
(see also my clarifications in the comments)


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Akratics Anonymous" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com

Initial thoughts from a 2 minute view:

“Custom goals” really needs a hyperlink. How are they different from what I
can use as a free user?

Beemium is the most adorable portmanteau I’ve ever encountered. I think
you should use it everywhere you normally say “Premium”. (Eg: Beemium users
get priority support.)

The slider isn’t intuitive to me. I did the typical user thing, looked at
the first number that appeared, and thought that the maximum discount is
only 14%. It’s especially confusing because that changes from an “eg” to
an actual discount once you manipulate the slider. I want to pay every six
months, why did the number go down?

Humans love to compare things. When I run the slider to the right and the
prices change, my immediate thought is “how much would that costly me
normally” (ie, month-to-month) and “how much am I saving”? Putting those
numbers right next to the costs will make the longer term packages more
attractive.

You probably want to make it really clear that lifetime packages are
available (maybe with some examples). Users love lifetime packages
(because they remove cost unknowns).

What happens if I pay in advance for a bee lite plan, and then later wish
to change to a beemium plan? If the longer plans still give me flexibility
to change, I’d like at least a link explaining that.

How do you automatically pause? Is it length since last data point was
entered?

<3 Paul

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

oh, ha, yeah, we need to hurry and finish the feature where you can
switch plans, etc, without emailing us. then you’ll always see that
same page.

in the meantime, you can sign in as this test user to check it out:
username: test2206
password: akranon

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:02 PM, Jake Jenkins j2jenkins@gmail.com wrote:

So, I already signed up for Premium and now when I click on that link it
says “You have signed up.” Anyway I can see what new users are seeing?

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

Thanks so much to all of you who’ve been helping us think through our
premium plans.
We’re about ready to announce this!

beeminder.com/premium

We’d love to have one last discussion here on Akratics Anonymous before
we

do.

Thanks again, everyone!
Danny and Bethany and Andy

PS: Great post by Jake Jenkins making the "don’t be a free user"
argument:

http://j2jenkins.com/2013/04/01/choosing-to-invest-in-beeminder/
(see also my clarifications in the comments)


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups

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an

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http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


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Paul, these are very help thoughts! I’ll answer here for now:

“Custom goals” really needs a hyperlink. How are they different from what I
can use as a free user?

Settings for custom goals: choosing the good side of the road,
exponential roads (can be nice for weight loss if you want to lose,
say, 1% of your weight per month), picking whether a graph is
auto-summing, what function is used to aggregate multiple points on
the same day (eg, min, max, sum, last, first, mean), whether to plot
all points or only the one that counts.

Right now I don’t think even power users need custom goals very often.
I think that will change; keep an eye on twitter.com/beemuvi !

Beemium is the most adorable portmanteau I’ve ever encountered. I think
you should use it everywhere you normally say “Premium”. (Eg: Beemium users
get priority support.)

:slight_smile: I think that one was Andy, and I agree. But if we take your
suggestion, what’s the specific name for the top-tier plan?

The slider isn’t intuitive to me. I did the typical user thing, looked at
the first number that appeared, and thought that the maximum discount is
only 14%. It’s especially confusing because that changes from an “eg” to an
actual discount once you manipulate the slider. I want to pay every six
months, why did the number go down?

Yeah, at first it shows the discount (14%) for yearly but once you
start sliding the slider it shows the actual discount at that point on
the slider.

… will make the longer term packages more attractive.

I’m so enamored with that slider I could slide it back and forth all
day. Note that we aren’t hoping people will pick longer term packages.
We worked out the math (net present value of annuities and whatnot) so
that we’re perfectly indifferent! :slight_smile:

(Btw, I’m curious if anyone can figure out how we compute the discount
percentage quoted above the slider. First one to do so gets a Beemium
subscription for the price of Plan Bee (or Plan Bee for the price of
Bee Lite)!)

What happens if I pay in advance for a bee lite plan, and then later wish to
change to a beemium plan? If the longer plans still give me flexibility to
change, I’d like at least a link explaining that.

We totally failed to think of that. I think we should prorate
perfectly fairly if you want to upgrade, but if you want to downgrade
it won’t kick in till your current payment runs out. Otherwise it’s
defeating the point of getting the discount by committing to a longer
period of time. Conveying that concisely is going to be tricky.

How do you automatically pause? Is it length since last data point was
entered?

Yes, if you don’t have any new data in the last month then we don’t
charge you. That applies no matter what amount of time you paid for.
If you’re paying yearly then in a year when it’s time for the next
payment, it won’t happen if you haven’t added data in the last month.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com

:slight_smile: I think that one was Andy, and I agree. But if we take your
suggestion, what’s the specific name for the top-tier plan?

With some creativity, you or we can come up with something new, right? Just
off the top of my head: Beeyond?

I guess I can understand this move, you guys need to find some way to make
some money off of this site, and that’s kind of hard in the current model.
However, it still feels a little bit weird to me: having to pay a monthly
subscription, to be able to pledge more money to you guys.
I’m wondering though. With Plan Bee, are the pledgeless goals limited to
new goals you create, or can you stay free if you derail? I guess that
could be an important feature for some guys (or maybe a scary one for
others, underminining their motivation).

Thomas

Tuesday, 2 April 2013 08:53:19 UTC+2, Daniel Reeves wrote:

Paul, these are very help thoughts! I’ll answer here for now:

“Custom goals” really needs a hyperlink. How are they different from
what I
can use as a free user?

Settings for custom goals: choosing the good side of the road,
exponential roads (can be nice for weight loss if you want to lose,
say, 1% of your weight per month), picking whether a graph is
auto-summing, what function is used to aggregate multiple points on
the same day (eg, min, max, sum, last, first, mean), whether to plot
all points or only the one that counts.

Right now I don’t think even power users need custom goals very often.
I think that will change; keep an eye on twitter.com/beemuvi !

Beemium is the most adorable portmanteau I’ve ever encountered. I
think
you should use it everywhere you normally say “Premium”. (Eg: Beemium
users
get priority support.)

:slight_smile: I think that one was Andy, and I agree. But if we take your
suggestion, what’s the specific name for the top-tier plan?

The slider isn’t intuitive to me. I did the typical user thing, looked
at
the first number that appeared, and thought that the maximum discount is
only 14%. It’s especially confusing because that changes from an “eg”
to an
actual discount once you manipulate the slider. I want to pay every six
months, why did the number go down?

Yeah, at first it shows the discount (14%) for yearly but once you
start sliding the slider it shows the actual discount at that point on
the slider.

… will make the longer term packages more attractive.

I’m so enamored with that slider I could slide it back and forth all
day. Note that we aren’t hoping people will pick longer term packages.
We worked out the math (net present value of annuities and whatnot) so
that we’re perfectly indifferent! :slight_smile:

(Btw, I’m curious if anyone can figure out how we compute the discount
percentage quoted above the slider. First one to do so gets a Beemium
subscription for the price of Plan Bee (or Plan Bee for the price of
Bee Lite)!)

What happens if I pay in advance for a bee lite plan, and then later
wish to
change to a beemium plan? If the longer plans still give me flexibility
to
change, I’d like at least a link explaining that.

We totally failed to think of that. I think we should prorate
perfectly fairly if you want to upgrade, but if you want to downgrade
it won’t kick in till your current payment runs out. Otherwise it’s
defeating the point of getting the discount by committing to a longer
period of time. Conveying that concisely is going to be tricky.

How do you automatically pause? Is it length since last data point was
entered?

Yes, if you don’t have any new data in the last month then we don’t
charge you. That applies no matter what amount of time you paid for.
If you’re paying yearly then in a year when it’s time for the next
payment, it won’t happen if you haven’t added data in the last month.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com

With some creativity, you or we can come up with something new, right? Just
off the top of my head: Beeyond?

Ha, yeah, the bee puns are almost limitless. Beesty, Beefy, Beeginner
(but want the opposite of that for the top-tier plan), “To Bee, Not
Not To Bee”, High Beem, Beetlejuice, Queen Bee, Beegger and Better,

None of those seem as good as Bee Lite and Plan Bee though (the idea
again is to change the name of Beemium so we can use that as the
umbrella term).

However, it still feels a little bit weird to me: having to pay a monthly
subscription, to be able to pledge more money to you guys.

Yeah, but what about all this isn’t crazy. :slight_smile:
And it really is the case that our hardest core users have real value
for that, and it will save some people money.
Those are the people who take commitment devices very seriously and
are impressively self-aware.
I’m actually not sure I’m at that level personally: I’m always in
denial and think “maybe this time the $5 level be enough… ok, no, but
maybe the $10 level? …”
The psychology of this is, like you say, weird.

I’m wondering though. With Plan Bee, are the pledgeless goals limited to new
goals you create, or can you stay free if you derail?

Oh, sorry, yes, we need to clarify that somewhere. Freebees
(pledgeless goals) are just ones that start without a pledge. If you
derail you still have to pledge (not pay) to unfreeze. The idea is to
close the loophole where you create a new goal each time you derail so
you don’t have to ever pledge. “weight”, “weight2”, “june-weight”,
“for-real-this-time”, etc. Now only Plan Bee and Beemium folks can get
away with that.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com

My reaction to the description of the three plans was that three seemed
like too many, and you’d be better off with two. I wasn’t clear on how the
middle plan was meaningfully different from the bottom plan.

Now, maybe you’re just going for the old marketing trick of giving people
three tiers so that they’ll choose the middle one (whereas if you gave them
two some of those people would choose the bottom one). But that doesn’t
seem like your style…

David

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

With some creativity, you or we can come up with something new, right?
Just
off the top of my head: Beeyond?

Ha, yeah, the bee puns are almost limitless. Beesty, Beefy, Beeginner
(but want the opposite of that for the top-tier plan), “To Bee, Not
Not To Bee”, High Beem, Beetlejuice, Queen Bee, Beegger and Better,

None of those seem as good as Bee Lite and Plan Bee though (the idea
again is to change the name of Beemium so we can use that as the
umbrella term).

However, it still feels a little bit weird to me: having to pay a monthly
subscription, to be able to pledge more money to you guys.

Yeah, but what about all this isn’t crazy. :slight_smile:
And it really is the case that our hardest core users have real value
for that, and it will save some people money.
Those are the people who take commitment devices very seriously and
are impressively self-aware.
I’m actually not sure I’m at that level personally: I’m always in
denial and think “maybe this time the $5 level be enough… ok, no, but
maybe the $10 level? …”
The psychology of this is, like you say, weird.

I’m wondering though. With Plan Bee, are the pledgeless goals limited to
new
goals you create, or can you stay free if you derail?

Oh, sorry, yes, we need to clarify that somewhere. Freebees
(pledgeless goals) are just ones that start without a pledge. If you
derail you still have to pledge (not pay) to unfreeze. The idea is to
close the loophole where you create a new goal each time you derail so
you don’t have to ever pledge. “weight”, “weight2”, “june-weight”,
“for-real-this-time”, etc. Now only Plan Bee and Beemium folks can get
away with that.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
“Akratics Anonymous” group.
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David Reiley is a Research Scientist at Google
Learn more about me at http://www.davidreiley.com

Ha, no, the sneakiest we got was our attempt to first anchor everyone
on gym memberships and lifecoaches so that $40/month would seem
reasonable. Then we actually looked at some numbers and decided that
$25/month was pretty fair. All but the most hardcore people average
less than that per month so even if free short-circuiting allowed
everyone to keep from ever paying pledges, we’re pretty sure we
wouldn’t lose money overall.

As for three plans vs two, we have quite a list of potential premium
features so hopefully three will make more and more sense…

  • free shortcircuiting [DONE, beemium]
  • unlimited freebees [DONE, plan bee]
  • tips of the day only for premium users [DONE, bee lite]
  • custom goals [DONE, beelite]
  • priority support (response in 24 hours or your money back? currently
    left vague) [all plans]
  • custom akrasia horizon
  • membership in Akratics Anonymous? (grandfather in all current
    members? offer them a super discounted rate?)
  • no ads (if we added ads)
  • no ads shown to others when viewing your gallery or goal pages
  • social pressure: specify people to notify if you derail instead of
    charging you? (HT moritz)
  • choose a beneficiary
  • expose more advanced settings
  • wide weasel spectrum (can choose weaselproofness as well as
    weasel-immunity where you can always weasel out, for people who just
    want to track)
  • limited/automatable subset of
    Beekeeper features
  • private graphs?
  • SMS bot (HT dyang)
  • the smartphone apps? (they’d be free in the app stores but only
    connect to premium accounts)
  • profile badges? (HT dyang)
  • access to new features? (HT dyang)
  • graph comparison? (like if I want to compare my dy/weight against
    b/weight to see who’s kicking whose butt) (HT dyang)

Additions to this list welcome!

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:27 PM, David Reiley david@davidreiley.com wrote:

My reaction to the description of the three plans was that three seemed like
too many, and you’d be better off with two. I wasn’t clear on how the
middle plan was meaningfully different from the bottom plan.

Now, maybe you’re just going for the old marketing trick of giving people
three tiers so that they’ll choose the middle one (whereas if you gave them
two some of those people would choose the bottom one). But that doesn’t
seem like your style…

David

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

With some creativity, you or we can come up with something new, right?
Just
off the top of my head: Beeyond?

Ha, yeah, the bee puns are almost limitless. Beesty, Beefy, Beeginner
(but want the opposite of that for the top-tier plan), “To Bee, Not
Not To Bee”, High Beem, Beetlejuice, Queen Bee, Beegger and Better,

None of those seem as good as Bee Lite and Plan Bee though (the idea
again is to change the name of Beemium so we can use that as the
umbrella term).

However, it still feels a little bit weird to me: having to pay a
monthly
subscription, to be able to pledge more money to you guys.

Yeah, but what about all this isn’t crazy. :slight_smile:
And it really is the case that our hardest core users have real value
for that, and it will save some people money.
Those are the people who take commitment devices very seriously and
are impressively self-aware.
I’m actually not sure I’m at that level personally: I’m always in
denial and think “maybe this time the $5 level be enough… ok, no, but
maybe the $10 level? …”
The psychology of this is, like you say, weird.

I’m wondering though. With Plan Bee, are the pledgeless goals limited to
new
goals you create, or can you stay free if you derail?

Oh, sorry, yes, we need to clarify that somewhere. Freebees
(pledgeless goals) are just ones that start without a pledge. If you
derail you still have to pledge (not pay) to unfreeze. The idea is to
close the loophole where you create a new goal each time you derail so
you don’t have to ever pledge. “weight”, “weight2”, “june-weight”,
“for-real-this-time”, etc. Now only Plan Bee and Beemium folks can get
away with that.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
“Akratics Anonymous” group.
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email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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David Reiley is a Research Scientist at Google
Learn more about me at http://www.davidreiley.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
“Akratics Anonymous” group.
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http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com

On Apr 2, 2013 5:53 PM, “Daniel Reeves” dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Settings for custom goals: choosing the good side of the road,
exponential roads (can be nice for weight loss if you want to lose,
say, 1% of your weight per month), picking whether a graph is
auto-summing, what function is used to aggregate multiple points on
the same day (eg, min, max, sum, last, first, mean), whether to plot
all points or only the one that counts.

So, everything I can do via the API, right? :wink:

:slight_smile: I think that one was Andy, and I agree. But if we take your
suggestion, what’s the specific name for the top-tier plan?

Oh! I had thought only the top tier plan got the priority support, so
clearly I was already confused as to what was meant by a “Beemium” user!

Note that we aren’t hoping people will pick longer term packages.

No, but you are hoping people will pick a package, and the longer term
ones feel like better deals. The more people saying “wow, what a great
deal” the larger the quantity of paying users you will get. :slight_smile:

If you’re paying yearly then in a year when it’s time for the next
payment, it won’t happen if you haven’t added data in the last month.

Oh! That’s a very different pause than what I thought. I thought that
auto-pausing would mean that internally there’s a counter of how many
months of Beeminder+ you have on your account, and if there’s no data in
the last month, then there’s no decrement to that counter. My
interpretation of what you’ve described is simply there’s no auto-renewal
if the user is dormant at the end of their subscription.

Paul

With regards to the smartphone apps, I’d absolutely have them available to
everyone, since that gets people’s feet in the door. However you can have
extra functionality for B+ accounts (widgets only for B+ accounts
immediately spring to mind here).

Also, while perhaps a crazy idea, frequent derailer miles. If you’ve lost
more than $X in pledges over the last T, you get B+ tier N for free! :wink:

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.comwrote:

Ha, no, the sneakiest we got was our attempt to first anchor everyone
on gym memberships and lifecoaches so that $40/month would seem
reasonable. Then we actually looked at some numbers and decided that
$25/month was pretty fair. All but the most hardcore people average
less than that per month so even if free short-circuiting allowed
everyone to keep from ever paying pledges, we’re pretty sure we
wouldn’t lose money overall.

As for three plans vs two, we have quite a list of potential premium
features so hopefully three will make more and more sense…

  • free shortcircuiting [DONE, beemium]
  • unlimited freebees [DONE, plan bee]
  • tips of the day only for premium users [DONE, bee lite]
  • custom goals [DONE, beelite]
  • priority support (response in 24 hours or your money back? currently
    left vague) [all plans]
  • custom akrasia horizon
  • membership in Akratics Anonymous? (grandfather in all current
    members? offer them a super discounted rate?)
  • no ads (if we added ads)
  • no ads shown to others when viewing your gallery or goal pages
  • social pressure: specify people to notify if you derail instead of
    charging you? (HT moritz)
  • choose a beneficiary
  • expose more advanced settings
  • wide weasel spectrum (can choose weaselproofness as well as
    weasel-immunity where you can always weasel out, for people who just
    want to track)
  • limited/automatable subset of
    Beekeeper features
  • private graphs?
  • SMS bot (HT dyang)
  • the smartphone apps? (they’d be free in the app stores but only
    connect to premium accounts)
  • profile badges? (HT dyang)
  • access to new features? (HT dyang)
  • graph comparison? (like if I want to compare my dy/weight against
    b/weight to see who’s kicking whose butt) (HT dyang)

Additions to this list welcome!

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:27 PM, David Reiley david@davidreiley.com
wrote:

My reaction to the description of the three plans was that three seemed
like
too many, and you’d be better off with two. I wasn’t clear on how the
middle plan was meaningfully different from the bottom plan.

Now, maybe you’re just going for the old marketing trick of giving people
three tiers so that they’ll choose the middle one (whereas if you gave
them
two some of those people would choose the bottom one). But that doesn’t
seem like your style…

David

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

With some creativity, you or we can come up with something new, right?
Just
off the top of my head: Beeyond?

Ha, yeah, the bee puns are almost limitless. Beesty, Beefy, Beeginner
(but want the opposite of that for the top-tier plan), “To Bee, Not
Not To Bee”, High Beem, Beetlejuice, Queen Bee, Beegger and Better,

None of those seem as good as Bee Lite and Plan Bee though (the idea
again is to change the name of Beemium so we can use that as the
umbrella term).

However, it still feels a little bit weird to me: having to pay a
monthly
subscription, to be able to pledge more money to you guys.

Yeah, but what about all this isn’t crazy. :slight_smile:
And it really is the case that our hardest core users have real value
for that, and it will save some people money.
Those are the people who take commitment devices very seriously and
are impressively self-aware.
I’m actually not sure I’m at that level personally: I’m always in
denial and think “maybe this time the $5 level be enough… ok, no, but
maybe the $10 level? …”
The psychology of this is, like you say, weird.

I’m wondering though. With Plan Bee, are the pledgeless goals limited
to

new
goals you create, or can you stay free if you derail?

Oh, sorry, yes, we need to clarify that somewhere. Freebees
(pledgeless goals) are just ones that start without a pledge. If you
derail you still have to pledge (not pay) to unfreeze. The idea is to
close the loophole where you create a new goal each time you derail so
you don’t have to ever pledge. “weight”, “weight2”, “june-weight”,
“for-real-this-time”, etc. Now only Plan Bee and Beemium folks can get
away with that.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups

“Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an

email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


David Reiley is a Research Scientist at Google
Learn more about me at http://www.davidreiley.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
“Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
“Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

I’m surprised you have not thought of the most basic one -
#of beeminder goals you can have? :stuck_out_tongue:
(Looks at his 29 goals and counting…)

BTW- YAY RETRORATCHET :wink:

-Jolly

-----Original Message-----
From: akratics@googlegroups.com [mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Daniel Reeves
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 7:33 PM
To: akratics
Subject: Re: we’re ready to launch Beeminder Premium for real

Ha, no, the sneakiest we got was our attempt to first anchor everyone on
gym memberships and lifecoaches so that $40/month would seem
reasonable. Then we actually looked at some numbers and decided that
$25/month was pretty fair. All but the most hardcore people average less
than that per month so even if free short-circuiting allowed everyone to
keep from ever paying pledges, we’re pretty sure we wouldn’t lose money
overall.

As for three plans vs two, we have quite a list of potential premium features
so hopefully three will make more and more sense…

  • free shortcircuiting [DONE, beemium]
  • unlimited freebees [DONE, plan bee]
  • tips of the day only for premium users [DONE, bee lite]
  • custom goals [DONE, beelite]
  • priority support (response in 24 hours or your money back? currently left
    vague) [all plans]
  • custom akrasia horizon
  • membership in Akratics Anonymous? (grandfather in all current members?
    offer them a super discounted rate?)
  • no ads (if we added ads)
  • no ads shown to others when viewing your gallery or goal pages
  • social pressure: specify people to notify if you derail instead of charging
    you? (HT moritz)
  • choose a beneficiary
  • expose more advanced settings
  • wide weasel spectrum (can choose weaselproofness as well as weasel-
    immunity where you can always weasel out, for people who just want to
    track)
  • limited/automatable subset of
    Beekeeper features
  • private graphs?
  • SMS bot (HT dyang)
  • the smartphone apps? (they’d be free in the app stores but only connect to
    premium accounts)
  • profile badges? (HT dyang)
  • access to new features? (HT dyang)
  • graph comparison? (like if I want to compare my dy/weight against
    b/weight to see who’s kicking whose butt) (HT dyang)

Additions to this list welcome!

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:27 PM, David Reiley david@davidreiley.com
wrote:

My reaction to the description of the three plans was that three
seemed like too many, and you’d be better off with two. I wasn’t
clear on how the middle plan was meaningfully different from the bottom
plan.

Now, maybe you’re just going for the old marketing trick of giving
people three tiers so that they’ll choose the middle one (whereas if
you gave them two some of those people would choose the bottom one).
But that doesn’t seem like your style…

David

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

With some creativity, you or we can come up with something new,
right?

Just
off the top of my head: Beeyond?

Ha, yeah, the bee puns are almost limitless. Beesty, Beefy, Beeginner
(but want the opposite of that for the top-tier plan), “To Bee, Not
Not To Bee”, High Beem, Beetlejuice, Queen Bee, Beegger and Better,

None of those seem as good as Bee Lite and Plan Bee though (the idea
again is to change the name of Beemium so we can use that as the
umbrella term).

However, it still feels a little bit weird to me: having to pay a
monthly subscription, to be able to pledge more money to you guys.

Yeah, but what about all this isn’t crazy. :slight_smile: And it really is the
case that our hardest core users have real value for that, and it
will save some people money.
Those are the people who take commitment devices very seriously and
are impressively self-aware.
I’m actually not sure I’m at that level personally: I’m always in
denial and think “maybe this time the $5 level be enough… ok, no,
but maybe the $10 level? …”
The psychology of this is, like you say, weird.

I’m wondering though. With Plan Bee, are the pledgeless goals
limited to new goals you create, or can you stay free if you
derail?

Oh, sorry, yes, we need to clarify that somewhere. Freebees
(pledgeless goals) are just ones that start without a pledge. If you
derail you still have to pledge (not pay) to unfreeze. The idea is to
close the loophole where you create a new goal each time you derail
so you don’t have to ever pledge. “weight”, “weight2”, “june-weight”,
“for-real-this-time”, etc. Now only Plan Bee and Beemium folks can
get away with that.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


David Reiley is a Research Scientist at Google Learn more about me at
http://www.davidreiley.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
“Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

I would like the ability to maintain a constant safety buffer even if I do
more towards my goal. write now on my do more goals (writing, guitar) when
I feel motivated and log a bunch of hours or words I build up a large
safety buffer. Then my motivation drops and I will usually stop until my
safety buffer is back down to a day or two. I would like the ability to
set my max buffer at a certain level and everything after that is counted
but doesn’t increase the buffer.

Jake

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Ha, no, the sneakiest we got was our attempt to first anchor everyone
on gym memberships and lifecoaches so that $40/month would seem
reasonable. Then we actually looked at some numbers and decided that
$25/month was pretty fair. All but the most hardcore people average
less than that per month so even if free short-circuiting allowed
everyone to keep from ever paying pledges, we’re pretty sure we
wouldn’t lose money overall.

As for three plans vs two, we have quite a list of potential premium
features so hopefully three will make more and more sense…

  • free shortcircuiting [DONE, beemium]
  • unlimited freebees [DONE, plan bee]
  • tips of the day only for premium users [DONE, bee lite]
  • custom goals [DONE, beelite]
  • priority support (response in 24 hours or your money back? currently
    left vague) [all plans]
  • custom akrasia horizon
  • membership in Akratics Anonymous? (grandfather in all current
    members? offer them a super discounted rate?)
  • no ads (if we added ads)
  • no ads shown to others when viewing your gallery or goal pages
  • social pressure: specify people to notify if you derail instead of
    charging you? (HT moritz)
  • choose a beneficiary
  • expose more advanced settings
  • wide weasel spectrum (can choose weaselproofness as well as
    weasel-immunity where you can always weasel out, for people who just
    want to track)
  • limited/automatable subset of
    Beekeeper features
  • private graphs?
  • SMS bot (HT dyang)
  • the smartphone apps? (they’d be free in the app stores but only
    connect to premium accounts)
  • profile badges? (HT dyang)
  • access to new features? (HT dyang)
  • graph comparison? (like if I want to compare my dy/weight against
    b/weight to see who’s kicking whose butt) (HT dyang)

Additions to this list welcome!

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:27 PM, David Reiley david@davidreiley.com
wrote:

My reaction to the description of the three plans was that three seemed
like
too many, and you’d be better off with two. I wasn’t clear on how the
middle plan was meaningfully different from the bottom plan.

Now, maybe you’re just going for the old marketing trick of giving people
three tiers so that they’ll choose the middle one (whereas if you gave
them
two some of those people would choose the bottom one). But that doesn’t
seem like your style…

David

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

With some creativity, you or we can come up with something new, right?
Just
off the top of my head: Beeyond?

Ha, yeah, the bee puns are almost limitless. Beesty, Beefy, Beeginner
(but want the opposite of that for the top-tier plan), “To Bee, Not
Not To Bee”, High Beem, Beetlejuice, Queen Bee, Beegger and Better,

None of those seem as good as Bee Lite and Plan Bee though (the idea
again is to change the name of Beemium so we can use that as the
umbrella term).

However, it still feels a little bit weird to me: having to pay a
monthly
subscription, to be able to pledge more money to you guys.

Yeah, but what about all this isn’t crazy. :slight_smile:
And it really is the case that our hardest core users have real value
for that, and it will save some people money.
Those are the people who take commitment devices very seriously and
are impressively self-aware.
I’m actually not sure I’m at that level personally: I’m always in
denial and think “maybe this time the $5 level be enough… ok, no, but
maybe the $10 level? …”
The psychology of this is, like you say, weird.

I’m wondering though. With Plan Bee, are the pledgeless goals limited
to

new
goals you create, or can you stay free if you derail?

Oh, sorry, yes, we need to clarify that somewhere. Freebees
(pledgeless goals) are just ones that start without a pledge. If you
derail you still have to pledge (not pay) to unfreeze. The idea is to
close the loophole where you create a new goal each time you derail so
you don’t have to ever pledge. “weight”, “weight2”, “june-weight”,
“for-real-this-time”, etc. Now only Plan Bee and Beemium folks can get
away with that.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups

“Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an

email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


David Reiley is a Research Scientist at Google
Learn more about me at http://www.davidreiley.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
“Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
“Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

As for total number of goals, our feeling is that as long as you’re adding
pledges on each new one you create (after the first 7 – and your 29 are
grandfathered) then we don’t need to limit you. And note that adding a
pledge on an existing goal frees up another freebee. Archiving a pledgeless
goal, though, doesn’t free up a freebee.

Still, you’re right that it should be on the list as a potential premium
feature. On the other hand, we may want to make sure non-premium users
don’t feel like they’re only getting a limited trial version. (I think
people are wary to get too attached in that case.)

Paul, your frequent derailer miles idea is smart. It reminds me of another
idea a friend just gave us: a partial refund of your derailment if you
re-up. We’re nervous about ideas like that since they mitigate Beeminder’s
sting. And of course that sting is our whole value proposition!

Also to Paul, your confusion about what an auto-canceling subscription
means: I’m thinking it doesn’t matter much. In your version you could save
money by buying a year but having it last 2 years by using Beeminder every
other month. In practice I think you’d either use it every month or you’d
stop altogether.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Apneet Jolly jolly@ajollylife.com wrote:

I’m surprised you have not thought of the most basic one -
#of beeminder goals you can have? :stuck_out_tongue:
(Looks at his 29 goals and counting…)

BTW- YAY RETRORATCHET :wink:

-Jolly

-----Original Message-----
From: akratics@googlegroups.com [mailto:akratics@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Daniel Reeves
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 7:33 PM
To: akratics
Subject: Re: we’re ready to launch Beeminder Premium for real

Ha, no, the sneakiest we got was our attempt to first anchor everyone on
gym memberships and lifecoaches so that $40/month would seem
reasonable. Then we actually looked at some numbers and decided that
$25/month was pretty fair. All but the most hardcore people average less
than that per month so even if free short-circuiting allowed everyone to
keep from ever paying pledges, we’re pretty sure we wouldn’t lose money
overall.

As for three plans vs two, we have quite a list of potential premium
features

so hopefully three will make more and more sense…

  • free shortcircuiting [DONE, beemium]
  • unlimited freebees [DONE, plan bee]
  • tips of the day only for premium users [DONE, bee lite]
  • custom goals [DONE, beelite]
  • priority support (response in 24 hours or your money back? currently
    left

vague) [all plans]

  • custom akrasia horizon
  • membership in Akratics Anonymous? (grandfather in all current members?
    offer them a super discounted rate?)
  • no ads (if we added ads)
  • no ads shown to others when viewing your gallery or goal pages
  • social pressure: specify people to notify if you derail instead of
    charging

you? (HT moritz)

  • choose a beneficiary
  • expose more advanced settings
  • wide weasel spectrum (can choose weaselproofness as well as weasel-
    immunity where you can always weasel out, for people who just want to
    track)
  • limited/automatable subset of
    Beekeeper features
  • private graphs?
  • SMS bot (HT dyang)
  • the smartphone apps? (they’d be free in the app stores but only
    connect to

premium accounts)

  • profile badges? (HT dyang)
  • access to new features? (HT dyang)
  • graph comparison? (like if I want to compare my dy/weight against
    b/weight to see who’s kicking whose butt) (HT dyang)

Additions to this list welcome!

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:27 PM, David Reiley david@davidreiley.com
wrote:

My reaction to the description of the three plans was that three
seemed like too many, and you’d be better off with two. I wasn’t
clear on how the middle plan was meaningfully different from the bottom
plan.

Now, maybe you’re just going for the old marketing trick of giving
people three tiers so that they’ll choose the middle one (whereas if
you gave them two some of those people would choose the bottom one).
But that doesn’t seem like your style…

David

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
wrote:

With some creativity, you or we can come up with something new,
right?

Just
off the top of my head: Beeyond?

Ha, yeah, the bee puns are almost limitless. Beesty, Beefy, Beeginner
(but want the opposite of that for the top-tier plan), “To Bee, Not
Not To Bee”, High Beem, Beetlejuice, Queen Bee, Beegger and Better,

None of those seem as good as Bee Lite and Plan Bee though (the idea
again is to change the name of Beemium so we can use that as the
umbrella term).

However, it still feels a little bit weird to me: having to pay a
monthly subscription, to be able to pledge more money to you guys.

Yeah, but what about all this isn’t crazy. :slight_smile: And it really is the
case that our hardest core users have real value for that, and it
will save some people money.
Those are the people who take commitment devices very seriously and
are impressively self-aware.
I’m actually not sure I’m at that level personally: I’m always in
denial and think “maybe this time the $5 level be enough… ok, no,
but maybe the $10 level? …”
The psychology of this is, like you say, weird.

I’m wondering though. With Plan Bee, are the pledgeless goals
limited to new goals you create, or can you stay free if you
derail?

Oh, sorry, yes, we need to clarify that somewhere. Freebees
(pledgeless goals) are just ones that start without a pledge. If you
derail you still have to pledge (not pay) to unfreeze. The idea is to
close the loophole where you create a new goal each time you derail
so you don’t have to ever pledge. “weight”, “weight2”, “june-weight”,
“for-real-this-time”, etc. Now only Plan Bee and Beemium folks can
get away with that.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


David Reiley is a Research Scientist at Google Learn more about me at
http://www.davidreiley.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
“Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
“Akratics Anonymous” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to akratics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com

Paul, your frequent derailer miles idea is smart. It reminds me of another
idea a friend just gave us: a partial refund of your derailment if you re-up.
We’re nervous about ideas like that since they mitigate Beeminder’s sting.
And of course that sting is our whole value proposition!

It’s not very much of a sting reduction, and it does mean that your biggest
earners automatically start getting priority support and features.
If they’re failing often enough to get a higher tier, you’re probably
delighted that they’re going to start making custom goals they then
might proceed to fail. :slight_smile:

Also to Paul, your confusion about what an auto-canceling subscription means:
I’m thinking it doesn’t matter much. In your version you could save money by
buying a year but having it last 2 years by using Beeminder every other
month. In practice I think you’d either use it every month or you’d stop
altogether.

My biggest worry is users feeling slighted if they interpreted ‘auto-pause’
the way I did, and then discovered it wasn’t the case. For example, sign up
for a year, use bmndr for two months, stop using it for whatever reason
(failed/succeeded all goals), and then coming back six months after that.
Discovering six months of lost subscription when they expected an auto-pause
is going to be awful.

I’d be inclined to explain on the second page (where one confirms the
subscription) that account plans come with an auto-renew, but this
won’t happen if (a) you ask it not to (available via settings → Beemium), or
(b) your beeminder account is inactive (no data submitted in the last 30 days).

The opt-out is in settings for choice architecture reasons. Requiring
just an itty bit more effort to opt-out will result in higher auto-renew
rates.

Wait, are not subscriptions typically auto-renew whether you like it or
not? If credit cards didn’t expire I’m pretty sure I would still be paying
for AOL circa 2004 in Pullman WA, a website about historical undergarments
circa 2010 and a hundred other things that seemed worth it for a minute and
then about which I promptly forgot.

If Beeminder were a service with discrete units of service, such as a
Netflix clone where you paid per view of movies, or a cell phone plan
where you are paying for minutes I might expect behavior like you describe

  • essentially rollover of unused units of service. But given that Beeminder
    (and premium) is a service where you are paying to access and the entire
    point is long-term goal setting and behaviour change – something I would
    have trouble thinking of in discrete units-- it seems to me that stopping
    charging your credit card once you go away is incredibly generous given the
    precedent.

<3 B
On Apr 2, 2013 8:13 PM, “Paul Fenwick” paul.j.fenwick@gmail.com wrote:

Paul, your frequent derailer miles idea is smart. It reminds me of
another
idea a friend just gave us: a partial refund of your derailment if you
re-up.
We’re nervous about ideas like that since they mitigate Beeminder’s
sting.
And of course that sting is our whole value proposition!

It’s not very much of a sting reduction, and it does mean that your
biggest
earners automatically start getting priority support and features.
If they’re failing often enough to get a higher tier, you’re probably
delighted that they’re going to start making custom goals they then
might proceed to fail. :slight_smile:

Also to Paul, your confusion about what an auto-canceling subscription
means:
I’m thinking it doesn’t matter much. In your version you could save
money by
buying a year but having it last 2 years by using Beeminder every other
month. In practice I think you’d either use it every month or you’d stop
altogether.

My biggest worry is users feeling slighted if they interpreted ‘auto-pause’
the way I did, and then discovered it wasn’t the case. For example, sign
up
for a year, use bmndr for two months, stop using it for whatever reason
(failed/succeeded all goals), and then coming back six months after that.
Discovering six months of lost subscription when they expected an
auto-pause
is going to be awful.

I’d be inclined to explain on the second page (where one confirms the
subscription) that account plans come with an auto-renew, but this
won’t happen if (a) you ask it not to (available via settings → Beemium),
or
(b) your beeminder account is inactive (no data submitted in the last 30
days).

The opt-out is in settings for choice architecture reasons. Requiring
just an itty bit more effort to opt-out will result in higher auto-renew
rates.


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On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Bethany M. Soule bsoule@beeminder.com wrote:

Wait, are not subscriptions typically auto-renew whether you like it or
not? If credit cards didn’t expire I’m pretty sure I would still be paying
for AOL circa 2004 in Pullman WA, a website about historical undergarments
circa 2010 and a hundred other things that seemed worth it for a minute and
then about which I promptly forgot.

Well, you still need a way for people to cancel their subscription
other than having their credit card expire, right?. :wink:

I have an aversion to things which auto-renew, simply because my
default behaviour (like most humans) is “do nothing” and then I get
charged. I’m the sort of person who’ll pay for a six-month
subscription up front and then immediately unsubscribe, so I have to
make a conscious opt-in decision to renew in six months time. I would
not be surprised if this sort of behaviour was common amongst the sort
of people who would find beeminder appealing.

Plus, I game everything. Do I need a custom goal? Okay, I’ll buy one
month
of Bee Lite, create all the custom goals I need, and then
cancel the subscription, presuming that my custom goals stick around
(if they don’t, then that’s a motivation for me to remain a
subscriber). Do I want to move to a high pledge level? I’ll buy one
month of Beemium and get that adjusted.

I think that not auto-renewing is incredibly generous, but as
previously discussed my interpretation of the text was very different
the actual reality. I’m not saying that you should have an
auto-pause that works the way like I thought it did in my head¹, but
you don’t want people thinking it works that way by accident. This can
be easily avoided with a hyperlink / hover-text on auto-pause,
explaining what it actually means. (Or maybe that’s explained after
hitting subscribe but before confirming my subscription? I haven’t
pressed any of the buttons yet.)

<3 P

¹ The auto-pause that I’ve described is common in a few games targeted
at a casual audience. Puzzle Pirates immediately springs to mind as
having many ‘30 day’ features that don’t tick down if you don’t log in
that day.