Beeminder vs stickK

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
Date: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 21:27
Subject: Re: Beeminder vs stickK
To: Melanie Reeves Wicklow melzafish@beeminder.com

Moving a discussion with Melanie here:

For example, my mom would like to weigh 147 by a big trip we’re taking
in May, but has put huge stakes on getting to 159. This makes her
very likely to weigh 159 and nothing less

That’s because she’s doing the minimum she has to do. If she didn’t
have the contract then she wouldn’t lose any weight at all.
Presumably. If she’s like the rest of us akratics.

You’re right about the problem that you may regret not committing to a
steeper Road. I’d like to make it easy to steepen a Road at any time.
I even had the thought that you should also be able to unsteepen at
any time, just that it doesn’t actually take effect until a week from
now. No one ever wants a shallower road a week from now. Unless they
truly overcommitted.

What do you think? It reduces the risk of committing. After all, you
should always genuinely want to do what you’re being forced to do.
This system ensures that if you get that part wrong, you’ve got at
most a week of pain. Or play it even safer and just very gradually
keep bumping up the steepness whenever you’re sure you want/need to.
Regardless, the contract is same: stay on this Yellow Brick Road every
day or you immediately lose.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Melanie Reeves Wicklow melzafish@gmail.com
Date: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 23:12
Subject: Re: Beeminder vs stickK
To: Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com

I like those ideas a lot! I would love to attempt to go at a faster
rate for a smaller amount of time. I’d be really nervous about having
to wait a week before going shallower took effect though. Would 3
days be better? You can make a difference in 3 days … I’ve witnessed
what a weekend can do.

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Moving a discussion with Melanie here:

For example, my mom would like to weigh 147 by a big trip we’re taking
in May, but has put huge stakes on getting to 159. This makes her
very likely to weigh 159 and nothing less

That’s because she’s doing the minimum she has to do. If she didn’t
have the contract then she wouldn’t lose any weight at all.
Presumably. If she’s like the rest of us akratics.

You’re right about the problem that you may regret not committing to a
steeper Road. I’d like to make it easy to steepen a Road at any time.
I even had the thought that you should also be able to unsteepen at
any time, just that it doesn’t actually take effect until a week from
now. No one ever wants a shallower road a week from now. Unless they
truly overcommitted.

What do you think? It reduces the risk of committing. After all, you
should always genuinely want to do what you’re being forced to do.
This system ensures that if you get that part wrong, you’ve got at
most a week of pain. Or play it even safer and just very gradually
keep bumping up the steepness whenever you’re sure you want/need to.
Regardless, the contract is same: stay on this Yellow Brick Road every
day or you immediately lose.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
http://beeminder.com – What are you beeminding?


Melanie Reeves Wicklow


707-853-2831


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
Date: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 23:23
Subject: Re: Beeminder vs stickK
To: Melanie Reeves Wicklow melzafish@beeminder.com

Thanks!

Actually, the one-week restriction just means you couldn’t make the
Road any easier between now and a week from now. You could still make
it harder for just the next 3 days if you wanted.

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 23:12, Melanie Reeves Wicklow
melzafish@gmail.com wrote:

I like those ideas a lot! I would love to attempt to go at a faster
rate for a smaller amount of time. I’d be really nervous about having
to wait a week before going shallower took effect though. Would 3
days be better? You can make a difference in 3 days … I’ve witnessed
what a weekend can do.

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Moving a discussion with Melanie here:

For example, my mom would like to weigh 147 by a big trip we’re taking
in May, but has put huge stakes on getting to 159. This makes her
very likely to weigh 159 and nothing less

That’s because she’s doing the minimum she has to do. If she didn’t
have the contract then she wouldn’t lose any weight at all.
Presumably. If she’s like the rest of us akratics.

You’re right about the problem that you may regret not committing to a
steeper Road. I’d like to make it easy to steepen a Road at any time.
I even had the thought that you should also be able to unsteepen at
any time, just that it doesn’t actually take effect until a week from
now. No one ever wants a shallower road a week from now. Unless they
truly overcommitted.

What do you think? It reduces the risk of committing. After all, you
should always genuinely want to do what you’re being forced to do.
This system ensures that if you get that part wrong, you’ve got at
most a week of pain. Or play it even safer and just very gradually
keep bumping up the steepness whenever you’re sure you want/need to.
Regardless, the contract is same: stay on this Yellow Brick Road every
day or you immediately lose.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
http://beeminder.com – What are you beeminding?


Melanie Reeves Wicklow
http://MelzaFit.com
707-853-2831


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
http://beeminder.com – What are you beeminding?


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Melanie Reeves Wicklow melzafish@gmail.com
Date: Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 00:05
Subject: Re: Beeminder vs stickK

oh, so you could specify exactly how long to make it harder for? I
was picturing that you set it harder indefinitely, but that’s better
to keep the week rule for making it easier but be able to set how long
for harder. So you could decide to force yourself to bust your butt
for a few days because you know you can handle that for a few days and
you’d like to make a bit more progress on the goal.

With all this ability to change the rate and insert flat spots, maybe
someone would never need to specify an end value for the goal in the
first place since it has the possibility of changing. You could set a
bare min I guess, but then not be allowed to have a flat spot or
anything shallower unless you get well enough below the road? I guess
I’m thinking for bets. For non bets, they could do anything at any
time (other than make it shallower in less than 1 week). Actually for
non-bets, why not let them make it shallower at any time, no rule?

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Thanks!

Actually, the one-week restriction just means you couldn’t make the
Road any easier between now and a week from now. You could still make
it harder for just the next 3 days if you wanted.

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 23:12, Melanie Reeves Wicklow
melzafish@gmail.com wrote:

I like those ideas a lot! I would love to attempt to go at a faster
rate for a smaller amount of time. I’d be really nervous about having
to wait a week before going shallower took effect though. Would 3
days be better? You can make a difference in 3 days … I’ve witnessed
what a weekend can do.

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Moving a discussion with Melanie here:

For example, my mom would like to weigh 147 by a big trip we’re taking
in May, but has put huge stakes on getting to 159. This makes her
very likely to weigh 159 and nothing less

That’s because she’s doing the minimum she has to do. If she didn’t
have the contract then she wouldn’t lose any weight at all.
Presumably. If she’s like the rest of us akratics.

You’re right about the problem that you may regret not committing to a
steeper Road. I’d like to make it easy to steepen a Road at any time.
I even had the thought that you should also be able to unsteepen at
any time, just that it doesn’t actually take effect until a week from
now. No one ever wants a shallower road a week from now. Unless they
truly overcommitted.

What do you think? It reduces the risk of committing. After all, you
should always genuinely want to do what you’re being forced to do.
This system ensures that if you get that part wrong, you’ve got at
most a week of pain. Or play it even safer and just very gradually
keep bumping up the steepness whenever you’re sure you want/need to.
Regardless, the contract is same: stay on this Yellow Brick Road every
day or you immediately lose.


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
http://beeminder.com – What are you beeminding?


Melanie Reeves Wicklow
http://MelzaFit.com
707-853-2831


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
http://beeminder.com – What are you beeminding?


Melanie Reeves Wicklow


707-853-2831


http://dreev.es – search://“Daniel Reeves”
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com
Date: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 01:45
Subject: Re: Beeminder vs stickK

[adding a couple more people to akratics@beeminder.com – still just a
handful of people who’ve had cool ideas about akrasia. let me know if
you want on or off]

Yeah, I’m thinking you can make the yellow brick road do any crazy
thing you want any time, except that between now and a week from now,
no shallowing. So, for example, you can make the road twice as steep,
forever, and then change your mind the next day. Except you’re still
stuck with the twice-as-steepness for the next week before it goes
back to normal.

Whether the one-week restriction is waived for people without
commitment contracts… I guess that depends on how much we want to
focus on the akrasia crowd.

Speaking of which, we’re running a google ad to test the waters (and
because we have $100 credit to use up). What do you think:

Beat Akrasia, Reach Goals

Gradual results, instant gratifica-
tion. Hyper-rational goal tracking.

beeminder.com

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 00:05, Melanie Reeves Wicklow
melzafish@gmail.com wrote:

oh, so you could specify exactly how long to make it harder for? I
was picturing that you set it harder indefinitely, but that’s better
to keep the week rule for making it easier but be able to set how long
for harder. So you could decide to force yourself to bust your butt
for a few days because you know you can handle that for a few days and
you’d like to make a bit more progress on the goal.

With all this ability to change the rate and insert flat spots, maybe
someone would never need to specify an end value for the goal in the
first place since it has the possibility of changing. You could set a
bare min I guess, but then not be allowed to have a flat spot or
anything shallower unless you get well enough below the road? I guess
I’m thinking for bets. For non bets, they could do anything at any
time (other than make it shallower in less than 1 week). Actually for
non-bets, why not let them make it shallower at any time, no rule?

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Thanks!

Actually, the one-week restriction just means you couldn’t make the
Road any easier between now and a week from now. You could still make
it harder for just the next 3 days if you wanted.

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 23:12, Melanie Reeves Wicklow
melzafish@gmail.com wrote:

I like those ideas a lot! I would love to attempt to go at a faster
rate for a smaller amount of time. I’d be really nervous about having
to wait a week before going shallower took effect though. Would 3
days be better? You can make a difference in 3 days … I’ve witnessed
what a weekend can do.

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Daniel Reeves dreeves@beeminder.com wrote:

Moving a discussion with Melanie here:

For example, my mom would like to weigh 147 by a big trip we’re taking
in May, but has put huge stakes on getting to 159. This makes her
very likely to weigh 159 and nothing less

That’s because she’s doing the minimum she has to do. If she didn’t
have the contract then she wouldn’t lose any weight at all.
Presumably. If she’s like the rest of us akratics.

You’re right about the problem that you may regret not committing to a
steeper Road. I’d like to make it easy to steepen a Road at any time.
I even had the thought that you should also be able to unsteepen at
any time, just that it doesn’t actually take effect until a week from
now. No one ever wants a shallower road a week from now. Unless they
truly overcommitted.

What do you think? It reduces the risk of committing. After all, you
should always genuinely want to do what you’re being forced to do.
This system ensures that if you get that part wrong, you’ve got at
most a week of pain. Or play it even safer and just very gradually
keep bumping up the steepness whenever you’re sure you want/need to.
Regardless, the contract is same: stay on this Yellow Brick Road every
day or you immediately lose.


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
http://beeminder.com – What are you beeminding?


http://dreev.es – search://"Daniel Reeves"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – http://beeminder.com