Great general advice! Not a problem in my case though. Going to sleep is a skill I excel at, it’s structuring the rest of my day so that I can go to sleep that’s the problem.
I am interested in figuring out how to beemind my bedtime as well.
I keep realizing that I have this pattern where there is a window of time around 10 p.m. where if I am in bed I feel sleepy and easily fall asleep, but if I wait until after 10.30 I get a second wind and end up not usually falling asleep until much later.
I use the Basis watch to beemind my deep sleep and REM sleep and I noticed that I get more deep sleep when I go to bed around 10 ( and I tend to go right into deep sleep) and I feel better in the morning, even with the same amount of sleep.
I might try the idea of beeminding time not asleep after 10 p.m. with a do less goal.
Does anyone have an app or device that allows you to get sleep data into beeminder without writing additional scripts?
You can also use Lux to lower your phone’s brightness less than normally possible. It also allows you to lower the color temperature.
Not directly about beeminding bed time – but definitely about how to manage bedtime…
A recent episode of the IProcrastinate Podcast covered Bedtime Procrastination. It’s kind of funny – since I’d already admitted to being 47 other kinds of procrastinator, but I’d never recognized how much I put off going to bed. I’m learning.
Makes a lot of sense! The key for me for my own sleep schedule has been working backwards, trying to influence the behaviors/factors that influence the main behavior/outcome.
In this case, getting to sleep early enough is the main outcome. We put it at the root node. Then we ask, what are the factors that lead to this? Do I have a good amount of control over them? If we have a good amount of control over a first-order factor, then maybe we can Beemind that. If we don’t, then we can look at factors-of-factors until we find loci of sufficient control.
Now the bad news is this leads to an exponential number of things to manage. Naively putting all the factors-of-factors into Beeminder–not a good idea, even if you find a way to Beemind each of them.
Here is the good news: there is going to be asymmetry, both in impact and control. Probably a small proportion of the branches will be most important for shaping the target behavior/outcome. Probably a small proportion of the branches will contain things soundly in your control (or things that can be easily brought into your control with tech or help from friends/loved ones, etc.) Focusing on where impact and control overlap is a good place to start!
Hmmm. I think this is probably true for a lot of people, but not for me!
While I don’t have direct, conscious control of when exactly I fall asleep, in my experience, it’s felt like I have much more control over that than when I get up!
My father actually suggested setting a dedicated wake-up time in order to force bedtime a long time ago. I have tried it now and then–including Steve Pavlina’s exercise of “practicing” getting up when the alarm goes off over and over. Nope.
When I wake up feeling like I haven’t gotten nearly enough sleep, I often have a strong fear that if I don’t go back to sleep, the rest of the day is going to be crap. Sometimes that is a justified fear. I am not rational enough when I wake up to prioritize an long term goal over the anticipated pain.
Urgent things and some social obligations can “force” me to get up earlier, but unless I also make a systematic effort to sleep earlier, I just end up chronically sleep deprived. This is partly because being sleep deprived greatly diminishes my ability to make good decisions, like making arrangements to go to sleep earlier. So earlier wake up does not force earlier sleep for me.
Anyway, all this is only ancillary to the discussion–I have trouble getting up, but unlike @bee I don’t have trouble getting enough sleep if left alone.
Here’s a creative commitment device for getting up on time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZPNqJc-Jeg
(And an update: our Sleep As Android integration is almost ready!)
This is what I ended up doing with my bedtime goal. I used a technique called “pre-mortem” analysis to come up with the primary impactful factors, which for me were:
- Getting distracted by endless “time-waster” activities, primarily reddit and internet browsing
- Staying out too late with friends for too many days in a row.
I’ve basically set up my habits using a tally marker to make it as easy as possible to follow my “get to bed by HOUR” goal. Right now I’m emphasizing making it a success spiral, so it only gets upped in difficulty each week. It’s not a quantitative measure, so it’s either I get a point or I don’t.
what about getting get-up time from sleep as android directly?
I think getting the how much i sleep time is not bad but there is to count also oversleeping and sleep as android is not so good about taking account of oversleeping, it say after some days the hour of sleep you need to recover and you can recover it in one oversleep session (like if you didn’t sleep 3 hour, the previous day, if the day after you sleep instead of 6hours/9hours you could for the app recover your not sleep time) but it will not going to work for all people, if you are not doing it a bit every night or just turn to sleep your 6/7/8 hours can help better.
so i think actually the best thing is getting always to bed to a set hour and get up to a set hour every day, developing such habit, i think is much better than just get how much hour you sleep.
Any kind of iPhone app integration? You guys always make all the fun stuff for the Android phone! I bought one a couple of years ago to work with TagTime but then I had to give it to someone. I may just have to get a new one…
So, I bought a new android phone. But BM is not working for me… tears
To add a thought that hasn’t really been addressed here, it’s commonly acknowledged that phone/computer screens too close to bed are a Bad Thing. So as someone who wants to Beemind going to bed early(-ier) (previous attempts, have just un-archived the latter), how do I actually deal with submitting the data points without shining nasty LCD blue lights into my eyes?
Other than “just use the app anyway”, the obvious solution is “submit data for the previous night in the morning”. Have many people tried this? Does it cause problems with weaseliness? What about eep notifications? It seems like you’d be a day out of sync with everything. Is there some Terrifyingly Advanced setting to work around this?
The optimal solution, as is very often the case, is autodata, or one of those physical do button things. Does anyone have suggestions in that vein too?
@dutchie I’ve done both of these things. My Garmin Vivosmart (with a little OLED display) lets me mark down “going to bed now”. I have used that the next morning to enter in the time.
I did not have weasel problems, but that’s a “your brain” thing. You can enter in data for the previous day, but I don’t ride the edge of the road, so you might lose out on a day of road. Not sure.
Also, I wrote a tutorial on rigging up a wifi beeminder button for the purpose of beeminding bedtime.
When I want to minimize blue light exposure, I wear orange-tinted safety goggles up till bedtime. I find it easier than installing fl.ux and the like on all my devices. I haven’t measured if it’s actually more effective, but a pair is less than $10.
Downside: you might look like a huge dork. But whatever.
Once I have the glasses on, I just use the app anyway.
(Credit: this was suggested by Will Eden on the OBLW NYC mailing list four years ago or something. Posting this is a reminder to follow up with him to see if he still does this.)
If you happen to be an early riser, you could set the goal deadline to be as late as possible on the previous day (currently 6am). That might help jolt you out of bed, in order to enter the datapoint!
I have a lingering suspicion that some people would prefer different cut-offs on account of their habitual wake-sleep patterns, but it’s presently universal. As always, agitate for change if it doesn’t suit you.
I just want to plug that if someone wants to automatically beemind sleep time, I just added this option to beemind.me
It works well with Sleep as Android and probably other apps that sync with google fit platform.
For the moment, I aim to be up before 7:15. This may change in the near future when I get a gym membership sorted out and start going in the early mornings. So I’ll stash this tip away maybe to try then. Now, though, it’s currently working out that I submit a point at 10:25 as I’m going to bed, which works pretty well.
@olimay Yellow glasses do work against the blue light. 
Personally I use an app called Twilight on the phone and Redshift on my PC (but I know there are other alternatives depending on platform), that tints the screen towards red based on location on earth and time of day. It feels like it works quite well, at least I fall asleep much faster now than I used to.
A researcher that my brother knows, has used yellow tinted glasses on psychiatry patients with manic-depressions (which is tightly linked with sleep disturbances/circadian rythm), and the initial results were so good that they were initially rejected from a major journal for unrealisticness. http://www.pubfacts.com/detail/25264124/Blocking-blue-light-during-mania-markedly-increased-regularity-of-sleep-and-rapid-improvement-of-sym